Pro Tools 2023.3 - Major delay compensation bug [PT-301415]

[Fishbone]

Installation went smoothly, with no apparent problems.

But when I tried to load a heavy session with a lot of plugins created under 2022.12 beta got delay compensation red warnings all over the place. Had to disable almost all of my mixbus processing to get rid of them.

Don't know what can be causing this, since the session was running fine under 2022.12 beta and rosetta too.

Still investigating, though.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.


ADMIN EDIT: See https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?p=2668171

[Fishbone]

Originally Posted by Fishbone

But when I tried to load a heavy session with a lot of plugins created under 2022.12 beta got delay compensation red warnings all over the place. Had to disable almost all of my mixbus processing to get rid of them.

Don't know what can be causing this, since the session was running fine under 2022.12 beta and rosetta too.

Still investigating, though.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Just rolled back to 2022.12 beta and confirmed that the session runs with no ADC warnings.

PT 2022.12 is reporting ADC value of 24530 for the master out(like expected, since it carries a bunch of mastering plugins that introduces a lot of latency), which is the higher ADC value(orange ADC display) for all the tracks in the session and it's compensating for it without a sweat.

But when I install PT 2023.3 and run the same section ADC red warnings pops up all over the place and it seems not being able to handle any ADC value above 8000, which I could verify by disabling some plugins in the master until the red warnings vanish and checking the ADC value of the resulting "orange" ADC display.

Searching the web I only found a old thread that mentions an ADC limit value of about 16000 for pro tools 12, which is certainly improved in new versions as we can see with the performance for PT 2022.12 beta. But even that old number still way above the 8000 value that seems to be the limit for PT 2023.3 ADC.

Have I bumped into a bug? Could anyone be so kind as to try to replicate this and check those ADC numbers and confirm if that odd behavior is repeatable?

Thanks in advance for any help

[Darryl Ramm]

What sample rate are you running at?

Pro Tools has had the same ADC limits since Pro Tools 10:

16383 samples at 44.1/48 kHz,
32767 samples at 88.2/96 kHz,
65534 samples at 176.4/192 kHz.

You could have found a bug.

But the first question I'd have is are you running Pro Tools 2022.12 under Rosetta or native? I'd run both versions the same way and compare (changing the Rosetta setting in the Pro Tools app Command-I info panel). Run both under Rosetta and run both native, so you have four behaviors to compare.

[Fishbone]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

What sample rate are you running at?

Pro Tools has had the same ADC limits since Pro Tools 10:

16383 samples at 44.1/48 kHz,
32767 samples at 88.2/96 kHz,
65534 samples at 176.4/192 kHz.

You could have found a bug.

But the first question I'd have is are you running Pro Tools 2022.12 under Rosetta or native? I'd run both versions the same way and compare (changing the Rosetta setting in the Pro Tools app Command-I info panel). Run both under Rosetta and run both native, so you have four behaviors to compare.

Hi Darryl, thanks for that info.

Running at 48khz.

The session was created using PT 2022.12 native beta, and it behaves exactly the same under rosetta, with no red warnings.

Using the same session, PT 2023.3 exibits the same odd behavior under native or rosetta, with red ADC warnings showing up as soon as a track gets an ADC value above 8000.

further investigating, tried to create a blank session with PT 2023.3 and imported info from the old session and the problem remains, with red warnings popping up as soon as the master track is imported.

Go figure...

[Darryl Ramm]

Mmm you might have really discovered an ADC bug in 2022.3. Maybe we'll just hear of other reports as more folks start using it.

Are you running HDX, or Carbon?

Do you have any hardware inserts in the session?

Remember to try trashing prefs, just 'coz. Different versions of Pro Tools might have additional pref settings etc. And for fun I'd try making sure LLM is not enabled (there is at least one latency/delay comp bug tripped up by LLM with hardware inserts at least, maybe more). But there is nothing I know of where 8000 is a magic value.

If it was my session and I had time: I'd try to reproduce with a loaded up master track and as few other tracks as possible and share the session with folks here to see if others see it and/or file a support case with Avid support.

It might be interesting to disable ADC and measure offsets and see if the ADC value matches what the offset is... but this all gets to be a lot if you are busy.

[Fishbone]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Mmm you might have really discovered an ADC bug in 2022.3. Maybe we'll just hear of other reports as more folks start using it.

Are you running HDX, or Carbon?

Do you have any hardware inserts in the session?

Remember to try trashing prefs, just 'coz. Different versions of Pro Tools might have additional pref settings etc. And for fun I'd try making sure LLM is not enabled (there is at least one latency/delay comp bug tripped up by LLM with hardware inserts at least, maybe more). But there is nothing I know of where 8000 is a magic value.

If it was my session and I had time: I'd try to reproduce with a loaded up master track and as few other tracks as possible and share the session with folks here to see if others see it and/or file a support case with Avid support.

It might be interesting to disable ADC and measure offsets and see if the ADC value matches what the offset is... but this all gets to be a lot if you are busy.

Running native here, no HDX of carbon. No hardware inserts either.

Already tried to trash preferences, with no luck.

Oddly enough, I created a blank session with just an audio track and a master track and started to load FabFilter-Pro Q 3 with linear fase settings to push ADC limits and it choked just past 32k ADC, which was supposed to be the expected limit for a 96k resolution, although I'm running in 48k.

I could also duplicate the audio tracks a bunch of times without problems, as long as I did not insert another plugin that breaks the 32k ADC limit.

When I created a send with a plugin insert it also breaks ADC with a red warning on that aux.

Since my problematic session have a lot of intricate routing, with a lot of sends, I'll investigate further using a simpler routing to see if I come across a patterm, before I submit a ticket with Avid Support.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help and take care!

See ya

[c0c0p0ps]

Originally Posted by Fishbone

Just rolled back to 2022.12 beta and confirmed that the session runs with no ADC warnings.

PT 2022.12 is reporting ADC value of 24530 for the master out(like expected, since it carries a bunch of mastering plugins that introduces a lot of latency), which is the higher ADC value(orange ADC display) for all the tracks in the session and it's compensating for it without a sweat.

But when I install PT 2023.3 and run the same section ADC red warnings pops up all over the place and it seems not being able to handle any ADC value above 8000, which I could verify by disabling some plugins in the master until the red warnings vanish and checking the ADC value of the resulting "orange" ADC display.

Searching the web I only found a old thread that mentions an ADC limit value of about 16000 for pro tools 12, which is certainly improved in new versions as we can see with the performance for PT 2022.12 beta. But even that old number still way above the 8000 value that seems to be the limit for PT 2023.3 ADC.

Have I bumped into a bug? Could anyone be so kind as to try to replicate this and check those ADC numbers and confirm if that odd behavior is repeatable?

Thanks in advance for any help

I am getting this exact same behaviour with the red ADC warnings on sessions that were previously working fine. Have also rolled back to the previous version and again they have no issues.

[audiogamble]

Originally Posted by c0c0p0ps

I am getting this exact same behaviour with the red ADC warnings on sessions that were previously working fine. Have also rolled back to the previous version and again they have no issues.

Are your sessions in Dolby Atmos?

[snacks]

Originally Posted by Fishbone

Just rolled back to 2022.12 beta and confirmed that the session runs with no ADC warnings.

PT 2022.12 is reporting ADC value of 24530 for the master out(like expected, since it carries a bunch of mastering plugins that introduces a lot of latency), which is the higher ADC value(orange ADC display) for all the tracks in the session and it's compensating for it without a sweat.

But when I install PT 2023.3 and run the same section ADC red warnings pops up all over the place and it seems not being able to handle any ADC value above 8000, which I could verify by disabling some plugins in the master until the red warnings vanish and checking the ADC value of the resulting "orange" ADC display.

Searching the web I only found a old thread that mentions an ADC limit value of about 16000 for pro tools 12, which is certainly improved in new versions as we can see with the performance for PT 2022.12 beta. But even that old number still way above the 8000 value that seems to be the limit for PT 2023.3 ADC.

Have I bumped into a bug? Could anyone be so kind as to try to replicate this and check those ADC numbers and confirm if that odd behavior is repeatable?

Thanks in advance for any help

also experiencing this same thing. session has delay compensation of 15,258 samples. never had issues with it before updating to 2023.3 and rolling back to 2022.12 also seems to fix it

[c0c0p0ps]

Originally Posted by audiogamble

Are your sessions in Dolby Atmos?

No the sessions with problems are mastering chains that using ozone advanced on the track, bussed to a stereo aux with the limiter. Delay of about 16k samples in total and ADC going red which never happened before this release (or happens now I have rolled back).

Before going back I did try an Atmos session linked to the renderer which stayed green but only had a total of 6k samples ADC. I then tried the same master session using a different playback engine device but had the same red warning.

Immediately resolved by rolling back.