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Old 09-06-2016, 03:26 PM
propower propower is offline
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 2,202
Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

HDX (I believe) works in this same way as above. The only latency "problem" one will have is if there are lookahead type or other heavy latency plugins on the Master channels. They can be huge latencies and are a no go on Native or DSP systems (always were).

WRT what is acceptable latency - this will vary all over on this forum. Many will claim 5ms is no problem - some will say 10ms and so on. 256 buffer on a Native system at 44.1 is = 2*(256/44100) = 11.6ms for just the buffer (input and output) - then you need to add in the A/D D/A and any plugin delay. Total would be at least 13.5ms for an AVID I/O. For me this would be way beyond intolerable for vocals or any acoustic instrument (FWIW). A 256 sample delay in a DSP system (from AAX-DSP plugins) would be 1*(256/44100) = 5.8ms + again the A/D and D/A times. Something like 7.7ms at least. Again - Intolerable for me.

By operating my HDX system at 96kHz with minimal master track plugins (ProComp usually) 512 buffer setting and select AAX-DSP plugins on record enabled tracks I have 0.65ms to 0.9ms tracking latency every day. This a world of difference IMO from what Native achieves with ProTools (best case is 1.8ms at 96kHz 64 buffer). Where Native is getting close is 96kHz 32Buffer 1.1ms RTL. Apogee Ensemble TB and Logic (again with select plugins) works very well there as long as one carefully watches plugins and freezes things when needed. Not quite enough to give up HDX (and all my AAX only plugins) but as drivers improve (and Apogee did a great job there) - it is getting closer every year.
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Old 09-29-2016, 05:37 AM
7thheaven 7thheaven is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Schaumburg, IL USA
Posts: 107
Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

For me I think Avid is just failing all over the place in their transitions. Who did they ask when they started the transitions? If it wasn't for pro users, they would never exist. Why are they not allowing a wrapper be written by a 3rd party? What harm does it do? If anything, it helps more people upgrade.

I'm just in a real bad funk with the set up. Because of the terrible latency in HDX with plugs that are not written for DSP and only Native, I am forced to stay in HD3. Which means I'm stuck in PT 10. Which means I am stuck on MacOS 10.8.5. Which means the new Spectrasonics Keys app wont work, as it wont work on that older OS. Same with Native Instruments Komplete ...

I have money to buy a new MacPro, but I am patiently waiting for Apple to get off their a.. and release a new MacPro. (anyone know of a good chassis that can hold the HDX card with a thunderbolt connection?)

It's just so frustrating.. All these people are working against one another:
Software companies
Hardware companies

Don;t they realize they ALL will make more money and sell more if they work together tighter and release things within weeks of one another and not years?

I do appreciate all your valued input, as I am a old user.. I started when session 8 was around.. and pro tools free..
Richie- 7th heaven
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Old 09-29-2016, 05:47 AM
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John_Toolbox John_Toolbox is offline
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,329
Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

I know someone who still has a working session 8 in his studio. It's obviously not his main rig, but I thought it was cool that he still has it working.
- John

If a MIDI event triggers a sample of a tree falling and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?
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Old 09-29-2016, 06:15 AM
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jpsexton jpsexton is offline
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Margate, FL
Posts: 107
Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

I started with Session 8 as well. There were two other studio's in my town when I opened mine and they both had 8 track tape. I decided to be bleeding edge!

About a year ago I down scaled everything and went from an HD4 TDM system to a UAD system and after some pain, I'm mostly happy with it. You can track with the UAD plugins but the separate mixer interface is not so elegant.

If I were running a studio as a business again I think I'd still prefer the TDM system for tracking. It simply worked better in many ways...
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