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  #1  
Old 08-31-2016, 02:53 AM
7thheaven 7thheaven is offline
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Default Replacement for old TDM plugs?

I really want to stay up to date with software.
One HUGE thing holding me back are replacements for old TDM plus I use that are critical to my workflow. I wold love to hear from any of young suggestions for replacements for these plugs:

Line6 AmpFarm - most others I tried had too much latency.
Line6 EchoFarm
TC Electronics Master X
Virus Indigo
AutoTune - Tried new one and latency all over the place
Synchronic - I think this still works in 12?

Any suggestions are appreciated
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  #2  
Old 08-31-2016, 05:52 AM
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

The old Line6 and TC TDM stuff were great plugins. There are obviously plenty of modern plugins that can get similar results, but I haven't found any that are as effortless to use.

There is a new version of autotune called autotune live, haven't tried it myself but I'm assuming it will be more like the old TDM versions regarding latency.

I still have an old TDM system setup just for hosting my old plugins, I have it's digital IO connected to my main system so it works like an effects box. I would recommend keeping a minimal system around, even if you don't use it this way it's still nice to be able to recall old sessions. I sold my TC Tools license a few years ago and really regret not keeping it.
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  #3  
Old 08-31-2016, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

You've mentioned latency a lot. The issue isn't replacing the plug-ins sonically, there are plenty of things that sound way better these days. The biggest issue is coming off of TDM into a non-DSP system.
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  #4  
Old 08-31-2016, 06:17 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

You are right Drew. And the further question is is it possible to have almost no latency with a non DSP system tracking through plugins on a large session without jumping through hoops. This would obviously call for the lowest buffer size that is available. Just not sure that there is a computer that is powerful enough yet that can run everything at once on a large session at the lowest buffer setting without chocking. Correct me if I'm wrong because I have not experienced this yet.
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  #5  
Old 09-01-2016, 01:51 AM
7thheaven 7thheaven is offline
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

I purchased a HDX card (from HD3), tried working with all the new plugs and the latency was terrible. Auto Tune 8 was the worst, I had to print the track (which I don't want to do) with the AT and then go in and re-align the track as it was so out of time that it would never work in the song.

AmpFarm and Echo Farm both work great for tracking guitars quickly and they sound great. I have yet to find anything as good. I use the Soldano tone set like a plexi and it sounds great. No latency. in HDX all others don't sound as good and have latency.

I like to master bus mix with TC Master X as a multi band compressor, I don't know if there are anything better for HDX yet.

Access Virus is the best analog synth avail to Pro tools for Saw type synths that I am aware of. I used it all the time.

Lastly, I use synchronic to take a loop of a click track and lock it to the grid. (The click that comes with pro tools is good, but not good for live shows, I need something beefier) Is there anything that can take a loop and lock it to time like synchronic, or does synchronic work on the HDX?

I feel like Avid could have REALLY done a great thing if they allowed a 3rd party to create a TDM wrapper. If they did that, I would make a 100% commitment to HDX and all the current updates. But when I can't have a quick workflow that I am used to, it makes me stick to my older stuff. I feel like Im not alone in this decision.

I wish they work port all these plugs over so I can update everything.
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  #6  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:01 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek View Post
You've mentioned latency a lot. The issue isn't replacing the plug-ins sonically, there are plenty of things that sound way better these days. The biggest issue is coming off of TDM into a non-DSP system.
This I strongly agree with you for once. Having to swap between native and DSP all the time, and there's no choice due to the lack of DSP plug-ins greatly increases latency. It's often worse than it was in TDM.

Oddlyly enough, I read a post over on the GS forum were someone had both Native HD and HDX systems. He got BETTER latency performance with Native HD than HDX especially with VI's

Back to the OP. I've missed a lot of those too.
Quote:
Line6 AmpFarm - most others I tried had too much latency.
Are you on an HDX system? If so Amplitude works great if you insert a DSP plug-in before it - InTune is an obvious one. It works OK natively but only at low buffers. My friend is finding it works for him natively in Logic.

Quote:
Line6 EchoFarm -
Avid BBD Delay. I'm really liking this, DSP too. Other than that SoundToys Echoboy.

Quote:
TC Electronics Master X -
Personally I think iZotope's Ozone 7 blows Master X out of the water. Native only and horrific latency though. For a multi band DSP compressor. http://mcdsp.com/plug-ins/mc2000/

Quote:
Virus Indigo -
I REALLY miss this. I bought the hardware Virus Ti but I didn't like it as much. They changed chip from the same Motorola chip that was used on TDM cards. I'm not the first to say the old one was better. I now use Air Hybrid.

Quote:
AutoTune - Tried new one and latency all over the place
Don't know I'm afraid. I'm assuming you're using it live? I don't so use Melodyne.

Quote:
Synchronic - I think this still works in 12?
RTAS only I think. Air Transfuser - fiddly GUI though.

Working around latency in HDX is a MAJOR PITA....
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Last edited by Marsdy; 09-01-2016 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Edited for typos.
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  #7  
Old 09-01-2016, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
You are right Drew. And the further question is is it possible to have almost no latency with a non DSP system tracking through plugins on a large session without jumping through hoops. This would obviously call for the lowest buffer size that is available. Just not sure that there is a computer that is powerful enough yet that can run everything at once on a large session at the lowest buffer setting without chocking. Correct me if I'm wrong because I have not experienced this yet.
Sadly, it just doesn't exist. HDX was supposed to be the next level of this but for many reasons it just didn't take off.

The best you can do now (and younger people are fine with this), is either direct monitoring (UA's Console etc) or 32/64 sample buffer monitoring through PT. I've chosen the later so far and it's worked (with some hoop jumping).

Freeze actually has made this pretty easy actually. I can be in the middle of a complex mix and if they need to overdub, I simply Freeze all tracks (or just the ones with tons of latency), drop the buffer, and do the punch/OD. Sure, it does take some time (few minutes esp with UAD plugins) to Freeze, but it's not a deal breaker.
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2016, 06:43 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

Thanks Drew. That's what I thought. A bunch of hoop jumping but that's just the way it is. The pro music producers have been left in the dust.
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  #9  
Old 09-01-2016, 06:45 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thheaven View Post
I purchased a HDX card (from HD3), tried working with all the new plugs and the latency was terrible. Auto Tune 8 was the worst, I had to print the track (which I don't want to do) with the AT and then go in and re-align the track as it was so out of time that it would never work in the song.

AmpFarm and Echo Farm both work great for tracking guitars quickly and they sound great. I have yet to find anything as good. I use the Soldano tone set like a plexi and it sounds great. No latency. in HDX all others don't sound as good and have latency.

I like to master bus mix with TC Master X as a multi band compressor, I don't know if there are anything better for HDX yet.

Access Virus is the best analog synth avail to Pro tools for Saw type synths that I am aware of. I used it all the time.

Lastly, I use synchronic to take a loop of a click track and lock it to the grid. (The click that comes with pro tools is good, but not good for live shows, I need something beefier) Is there anything that can take a loop and lock it to time like synchronic, or does synchronic work on the HDX?

I feel like Avid could have REALLY done a great thing if they allowed a 3rd party to create a TDM wrapper. If they did that, I would make a 100% commitment to HDX and all the current updates. But when I can't have a quick workflow that I am used to, it makes me stick to my older stuff. I feel like Im not alone in this decision.

I wish they work port all these plugs over so I can update everything.
The latency issues occur with the non DSP plugins that you use. That's the way it's always been. The DSP ones are fine in the latency department.
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  #10  
Old 09-01-2016, 06:48 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: Replacement for old TDM plugs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
You are right Drew. And the further question is is it possible to have almost no latency with a non DSP system tracking through plugins on a large session without jumping through hoops. This would obviously call for the lowest buffer size that is available. Just not sure that there is a computer that is powerful enough yet that can run everything at once on a large session at the lowest buffer setting without chocking. Correct me if I'm wrong because I have not experienced this yet.
Me neither, especially if you use a lot of VIs and VE Pro. I'm on a 12 core Trashcan too. The low latency buffer for the record enabled track helps a little.
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