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  #21  
Old 12-11-2020, 07:34 AM
TimothyJohn TimothyJohn is offline
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Default Re: Always External Drive?

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
...

Fantom? Who? what? Some tiny company... what do they actually manufacture? More likely they rebadging stuff, but who knows what? I would not touch any of those with a ten foot pole. I don't know who's NAND they are using or who's controller or firmware. And there products have never been say reviewed on Andtech.com so lacking all their really good review tests/benchmarks. And what can Fantom do when there is a controller firmware bug? How many firmware engineers do they have on staff? Or who's firmware do they use and can they even roll out updates?

Now let me point out the absurdity here, you are worried about drive wear and presumably reliability etc. and you are willing to buy a cheap drive from God knows who? Just no.
Thank you!! After all, I can only learn from reviews, articles, etc. I am suspect of product/customer reviews, because ANYONE can submit these. Frankly, I see you as a "go to" source for reliable, sound information (pun intended). Based on what I've been able to read; PCIe, NVMe, and Thunderbolt 3 compatibility are the "standard" at this point. That being said, I was just looking for larger capacity, speed and reliability; once the PCIe, NVMe and T3 specs were met. I did not realize manufacturing was NOT uniform and consistent across the board in terms of the SSD. What I HAVE learned is that excessive heat and subsequent throttling issues were a matter of the design of the enclosure. To your point, many (including the Samsung X5) run HOT. But as I said, the "user Reviews" on Amazon, B&H, etc. can only hold so much validity. And yes, there are few if any reviews on the Fantom. I attributed that to the fact the Fantom is "new". Your insight, in my eyes, is extremely valuable. Ruling out the Fantom leaves me with? A number of substantially more expensive choices: The Samsung X5, the Glyph 2TB Atom Pro NVMe T3, the G-Technology 2TB G-DRIVE and the LaCie 2TB Rugged SSD PRO T3. At B&H, the Samsung X5 is listed at $599.99, while the others are listed at $699. So that's the price for 2TB SSD's with speeds over 2gb/sec. But many report the X5 is HOT. SOME report that the Glyph is hot, while Sweetwater claims heat is no issue at all. Many report that the G-tech randomly disconnects. Apple Insider lists the Lacie as it's top pick. The G-tech is #2, the X5 is #3, and the Glyph is #5. I'm not completely uninformed, and the Fantom is not listed. Thank you regarding the Andtech.com suggestion. Given the pricing, the Fantom SEEMED a reasonable choice. For 1gb/sec speeds, of course the options, price and performance are more "friendly" for Joe Consumer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
SSDs are incredibly complex beasts. Samsung is the largest SSD vendor in the world, the largest NAND manufacturer in the world, they do everything themselves from NAND to controllers to firmware and are able to fix stuff at any level themselves (and do). I would start by lookin at a Samsung X5 or other external NVMe SSDs from major manufacturers or look at putting an M.2 drive in a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure. Especially M.2 drives from... again major vendors like... Samsung, Micron, Sandisk. ... or maybe for your needs the T7 is blazingly fast enough, ... I have no idea.
"Maybe the T7 is blazingly fast enough..." I have fallen victim to the "My Mac order has been processing for nearly a month" syndrome. Truth is, my 17" MacBook Pro (Samsung 1 TB SSD 840 Evo 6G SATA) is topping out at 350 write/450 read on the Blackmagic Disc Speed test. My onboard session drive (OWC 1 TB Mercury Electra 3G SSD, installed in the Superdrive Bay) tops out at 245 read/270 write. If I had no option, and external SSD drive speeds quadruple this? I think I can handle that! But if I can afford it, I want to get the best available. By the way, I could find no reported "issues" with the Lacie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
That's not true. the data write rates in most audio use is low. You don't need to guess.... the article I linked to showed how to calculate the life... so go do a calculation instead of guessing. Actually get the specs for drives and calculate the life time for the data writes you will do. But it's going to be so long it's a waste of time to worry about. All the discussion on DUC ever about SSDs have been about consumer grade SSDs, nobody in audio I'm aware of uses enterprise grade SSDs aimed at extreme high drive write lives, it's just not needed... the write rates don't get near the use in say enterprise or large cloud servers. If there were wear problems DUC would be full of posts about drive failure and which super expensive enterprise grade SSD is best.... all I hears is *crickets*.
I read the article you posted. Over 300 years! Incredible! I have to find the article where it was stated "ten years". THAT was the article that got my attention!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
You really need to stop confusing yourself with this stuff. The M1 does nothing different than paging memory to the SSD than any Intel based Mac does. And it also does memory compression, just like Intel macs do (another point some people seem confused about). The smaller memory *will* mean you can't run some workloads, it might mean some more stuff pages out to SSD but this is not going to wear out the SSD, it is minuscule wear in the big picture, if the memory pressure is so high the laptop is actively paging in and out, so that it's significant the performance will suck and people just won't be running the apps on the mac. Want to know about another computer that pages memory out to SSD a lot--that is often under significant memory pressure? Many of the hundreds of millions of iPhones... and how many iPhones do you hear about with failing SSDs?
I wasn't confused. The reviewer merely pointed out the SPEED that the M1 does this. Users are NOT noticing the 8gb RAM limitations because of the speed of the drive. And using the SSD LESS; when the drive won't last past 10 years? That WOULD be an issue! But as the article you linked points out: "The life span of a Samsung 850 PRO with 1TB ... will probably last an incredible 343 years. This isn’t a guarantee, but a good forecast. The warranty for the named SSD is ten years. Also, TLC drives don’t have to hide. The 1TB model of the Samsung 850 EVO series, which is equipped with the low-priced TLC storage type, can expect a life span of 114 years." If I can, I will find the article stating a lifespan (NOT warranty!) of 5-10 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
No forget the SSD. You don't need to worry about this. You need enough memory to run the apps you need in memory. Stop worrying about stuff, get yourself set up and get going using the computer. (and FWWI I'm probably picking up a M1 MacBook Pro for work stuff but will of course toss PT on it to see).
Maybe I can return the favor and give YOU some worthwhile info. I've spoken at length to Apple tech people and sales reps. They were not quite expecting the huge demand for this initial rollout! (update, my order switched, FINALLY, from "processing" to "preparing to ship" They upgraded my shipping to "express delivery" at no charge, and without me asking! My Wife's was "standard shipping"; left China on Friday AM the 4th, and was delivered Monday AM the 7th. We'll see!) The Apple people suggested that the timeline might indeed move up for the next wave of ARM laptops. Some suggest a 14" and others a 16" MacBook Pro. Maybe both? As I said, My daughter will get this one, and I will acquire the next generation, PARTICULARLY for the extra Thunderbolt ports. You might give it til the 1st or 2nd Quarter of 2021. As I stated, two Apple reps hinted that the schedule for this 2nd generation of ARM Macs might be bumped up, due to the overwhelming success with this 1st gen roll out. Good Luck Darryl! Your information is VERY MUCH appreciated. Best wishes to you, your family and friends for a fantastic Holiday Season!!

Last edited by TimothyJohn; 12-11-2020 at 07:46 AM. Reason: sp.
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2020, 09:01 AM
hirundos hirundos is offline
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Default Re: Always External Drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
To be clear the Samsung T7 is *not* a Thunderbolt drive, it's USB drive with a USB-C connector (the same connector as Thunderbolt). Its a new era of drive that use NVMe over USB vs. most others we talk about that are NVMe/PCIe over Thunderbolt like the Samsung X5... which for different measurements will be several times faster than the T7. I use a mix of X5, T5 and T7 drives and some HDD for my backups. The X5 especially when I'm testing out new macOS versions and want to boot and run off it, it's then so close to the internal drive speed you don't notice any difference. The T7 are fantastic but if you were cloning the internal drive to a T7 and had to boot off it and try to run everything off that clone you may not have the disk performance you expect... but try how well it works for you. And yes the X5 are overpriced, damn you Samsung.
The X5 is out of my budget, and the T7 has some pretty bad reviews (thermal management, claims that it's an overclocked T5). Currently considering the SanDisk offerings.
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2020, 02:54 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Always External Drive?

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Originally Posted by hirundos View Post
The X5 is out of my budget, and the T7 has some pretty bad reviews (thermal management, claims that it's an overclocked T5). Currently considering the SanDisk offerings.
If you have some SSDs already I might just wait and see how stuff works. I'm not sure what bad T7 reviews, pay attention to Anandtech.com, they have probably the best technical reviews of consumer SSDs. Unfortunately only a partial benchmark on the T7. I would avoid the ones with fingerprint reader, just extra stuff to faff around with.

The other route to go is a Thunderbolt 3 caddy with an M.2 drive. (Samsung 970 Evo would be my starting point... very close to what is in the X5).

Thanks on the deliver M1 delivery times will have to see, but I need a separate MacBook Pro for misc work stuff so have to make a decision soon on what.
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2020, 06:18 PM
TimothyJohn TimothyJohn is offline
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Default Re: Always External Drive?

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Thanks on the deliver M1 delivery times will have to see, but I need a separate MacBook Pro for misc work stuff so have to make a decision soon on what.
You're welcome! And again, I appreciate your time! I feel like I might actually know what I'm doing. The $599.99 price for the Samsung 2TB X5 Portable SSD @ B&H is only going to last for two more days. After that, three drives @ $699.
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  #25  
Old 12-17-2020, 04:19 PM
TimothyJohn TimothyJohn is offline
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Default Re: Always External Drive?

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Originally Posted by hirundos View Post
The X5 is out of my budget, and the T7 has some pretty bad reviews (thermal management, claims that it's an overclocked T5). Currently considering the SanDisk offerings.
I JUST received my MacBook M1 Air, 16gb RAM, 1Tb SSD. I am still installing apps.
I decided not to do "Migration Assist", and instead do clean installs/updates for everything. So far, so good.

AS far as the 1Tb T7 goes, I have run the Black Magic test.
Through a passive USB-3 port on this UNI 8-in-1hub,
the T7 gets 310write/302read.
Through the MacBook Air's T4 port, it gets 633write/689read.
For reference, the M1 itself gets 3,166write/3,303read.

I'm still installing and optimizing, so nothing to report in terms of actual use. But Protools launches fine. Audio plugins insert and open.
Just a brief taste though. Haven't imported sessions or anything. UA isn't up quite yet, although someone I know was able to install UA's Big Sur update,
and power up his T3 quad Satellite. But for now, I will probably update my Waves plugins, as they are ARM compatible.
Installing Rosetta took 10 seconds. And all apps running through it have installed seamlessly and transparently. The computer NEVER got warm.
The battery lasted from 8:30 am to 6:30pm; running virtually nonstop: downloading, installing, updating, web surfing and video watching along the process.
There were also two external bus powered SSD's hooked up through the Uni hub the entire time. I wanted to run the battery down as much as possible ...

Very exciting actually. Running silent and cool is absolutely a dream come true.
I WOULD like to get one of the newer SSD's that boast 2gb+ per sec.
Since they are now close to $700 for 2Tb, I probably will wait til spring...

TimA

Last edited by TimothyJohn; 12-17-2020 at 04:34 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-17-2020, 08:29 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Always External Drive?

Neat. I have a M1 13" MacBook Pro arriving mid January. Will be fun to play with it. I hope Samsung X5 prices fall.
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