Upwards Compression

[Jon Martin]

I like to start a discussion carried over from the Webinar.

Robert, if you could please go back over the workflow and explain this in a little more detail. I know time was running short on the Webinar.

[mackerr]

That was my question as well. What other applications would the technique apply to, and does it alway need to include FX? What is the advantage of feeding the FX from both the clean and compressed channels?

Mac

[Scott Fahy]

It looked to me the example in the webinar is for 1 channel only. If you want to do kick, snare, rack and floor mics do you have to use the dummy alignment channel for each one? or is there another way to approach it.

Scott

[Jon Martin]

Originally Posted by Scott Fahy

It looked to me the example in the webinar is for 1 channel only. If you want to do kick, snare, rack and floor mics do you have to use the dummy alignment channel for each one? or is there another way to approach it.

Scott

I saw it as whatever you want to drive with the aux would go to your 'processing' and returned back as a compressed / effected signal to blend with the dry or 'un-processed' signal.

[Scott Fahy]

Originally Posted by Jon Martin

I saw it as whatever you want to drive with the aux would go to your 'processing' and returned back as a compressed / effected signal to blend with the dry or 'un-processed' signal.

Ok then I am confused, I listened to that section again and Robert said that if you use an AUX to drive the comps/eq's when you return it to the console that signal will be late and create combing. He was using group routing to do the upwards compression......or that was what i got from it.

[RScovill]

Originally Posted by mackerr

That was my question as well. What other applications would the technique apply to, and does it alway need to include FX? What is the advantage of feeding the FX from both the clean and compressed channels?

Mac

Mackerr -- in regards to what other instruments you would use UC on -- I've certainly used it more on drums than anything -- but -- in the analog world, I've regularly done it with a lead vocal - especially for rock/metal where I would add a compressed version of the signal with 1176LN@ 20:1 - medium/fast attack -- super fast release to good effect. You just have to be very careful with using extreme compressions on vocals because of it's effect on gain before feedback etc. I've also used it alot on guitar sounds where I'll have a basic rhythm level and tone, but add a very compressed/eq'ed/effected signal to the rhythm sound for solos and hooks etc. Makes it so you can get the guitar loud quickly with out it hurting.
Frankly it's still easier to implement in analog -- but you can do it on VENUE with the method that I showed in the webinar.

[RScovill]

Originally Posted by Scott Fahy

It looked to me the example in the webinar is for 1 channel only. If you want to do kick, snare, rack and floor mics do you have to use the dummy alignment channel for each one? or is there another way to approach it.

Scott

Scott -- I only showed one channel because of space limiations. It can be as many channels as you like though. I usually send kick in/out, snare top/bottom and toms to that compressed group. I use a stereo group for both groups so that they only follow one pan setting and add correctly in terms of their spacial postion. And no -- you only need one alignment channel to force the proper delay compensation.

[RScovill]

Originally Posted by Scott Fahy

Ok then I am confused, I listened to that section again and Robert said that if you use an AUX to drive the comps/eq's when you return it to the console that signal will be late and create combing. He was using group routing to do the upwards compression......or that was what i got from it.

Yeah -- correct, you shouldn't use an aux to do this - you should use a group. Now, that said, what you can do, is use Vari-Groups to do this. This allows you to have pre or post fader level control over the signals going to the group master. (I would suggest post personally) Then assign the groups to the LR per normal. In Vari-Groups you can link two mono groups and have them follow your input pan as well -- so this can work really great in that you can, for instance have less bass drum dictating the compression by simply turning it down in the Vari-Group (aux). Just for me personally though -- I prefer to have more than 8 mono groups -- prefer 8 stereo minimum.

[RScovill]

Originally Posted by Jon Martin

I saw it as whatever you want to drive with the aux would go to your 'processing' and returned back as a compressed / effected signal to blend with the dry or 'un-processed' signal.

You're close here -- the matrix simply serves as an addition/blending point for the uncompressed signals (via the aux) and the compressed signals (via the group) to be delivered to your effects processing. The return channel is 100% wet effects and is assigned to the uncompressed group. (you can't assign it to the compressed group or you will get a feedback loop) Get me?

[Scott Fahy]

Originally Posted by RScovill

Yeah -- correct, you shouldn't use an aux to do this - you should use a group. Now, that said, what you can do, is use Vari-Groups to do this. This allows you to have pre or post fader level control over the signals going to the group master. (I would suggest post personally) Then assign the groups to the LR per normal. In Vari-Groups you can link two mono groups and have them follow your input pan as well -- so this can work really great in that you can, for instance have less bass drum dictating the compression by simply turning it down in the Vari-Group (aux). Just for me personally though -- I prefer to have more than 8 mono groups -- prefer 8 stereo minimum.

I've been using the stereo group approach but not the dummy alignment channel, the timing was really close since I was doing some time offset on every channel to align things within the drums (Dave Stagl had a nifty Excel program that allows you to enter all the plug ins and calculate things very nicely). I'll try adding the align channel next time I mix and see if it cleans up the timing even more