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  #1  
Old 10-30-2001, 06:03 AM
jfk-studio jfk-studio is offline
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Default Why choose Protools?

Hi
I have a question that i wonder about. I´m going to start a studio soon and i´m in the middle of the construction of it. So i still have some time to dicide what equipment to buy. And here is where to trouble starts. I have allways concidered protools to be the best there is, but now when you look at money compered to what you get i´m having sekond thoughts. Today you can buy a mac dual800 for about 3500 and if you put a couple of tc powercorecards in there to, and you have alot of power. You can even get a nice moterfadercontrol kinda cheap. So can anyone help me and explain way i should buy protools.
Does the tdmcore sound much better???

And please don´t laugh about my english i not from the stats.
All the best Fredrik
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2001, 06:50 AM
peteri peteri is offline
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

This is really too big a question to answer - and there are any number of reasons, however here's my thoughts on what you cite as the alternative:

1) Firstly quality, I've used Logic for a fair while and whilst I love many of the Logic features, for speedy audio editing I just find PT the best, many times I've found I've been trying to make Logic look like PT. Also from my experience there are far less problems with PT - because the whole package comes from one source, this is a major advantage - you know who to shout at, no buck passing. Also I've had less problems because the software is written completely with the hardware in mind. Saying that Logic with TDM works pretty damm well, but this wouldn't be open to you.

2) Comparing against the Powercore et al. These look very good products but they're just not there yet - or even in the ball park, firstly there's the matter of third party support - you can pretty much only run TC plugins on the Powercore, this is nothing like the choice you have with a Mix card.

3) Latency, with the system you suggested there will be latency to deal with because the mixer/fx are running on the CPU - therefore there will always be much greater latency than with the Digi cards that run everything on them - therefore your Mac is basically a card holder. This is made worse by these Powercore cards as the audio has to be passed to and from the card before then being mixed. You can compensate in Logic - but this is still there, and will certainly cause problems with monitoring live effects (when recording).

4) Computer overload - in the old days I used to use a Pulsar card, this caused a lot of people a lot of problems with the PCI buss as using a card that doesn't ultimately mix vastly increases the traffic - I'd like to see how these newer cards hold up.

5) Beware of these power comparisions - Universal Audio has just been told off about this. Many like to say 'a Mix card can run two reverbs our card can run 5'. Yes, but the mix card would have another 4 dsp chips (of a type that can't run reverbs) available for eq/compression etc.

6) Track count - I have a D24 system (D24 card + DSP farm), + Mix farm + extra DSP farm. With this I can run a 64 track session with a pretty healthy set of plugins, 8 instances of Access virus etc. And there are no problems! It just works, and I know I can do this all this time, with a lot of edits - even with the power you've described I'd be interested in if a native system can do this - just because of the work the system will have to do.

7) Kudos - sad but true, it's nice owning PT, and a large number of clients will expect/like you to have it (I pretty exclusively work just on my own for an - expensive - hobby) - if you're charging you've got to have what the customer likes.

8) H/w integration - kind of touched on this before, but don't forget with PT you can set up the hardware within the application, you can name busses, inserts, have surround, not have surround etc. I know other systems let you do this, but PT really does act as a mixer too - you'll find plenty of debates here about the quality of the mixer by people with better ears/more free time than me - but the fact is PT really can do the jobs of a lot of consoles, particularly with a hardware controller.

9) Support, in my experience the Digi support is by far the best I have come across, again partly because they have no-one else to blame - they supplied everything!

10) Plug-in quality, I won't say all VST plugins are bad, but Digi keeps a pretty tight reign on who can develop plugins, and hence keeps the quality relatively high. Alternatively anyone can develop VST plugins - which means you might not get what you want.

11) Hardware controllers. Remember the £1000 odd the Logic control will cost - you can certainly get a Mackie HUI second hand for the same money (ish) and this is proven to work. The Emagic and Steinberg controllers are new and WILL have bugs - it's normal, also the Digi plugins (and those by thirdparties) have all been updated to work with the available controllers (as far as I know I'm sure someone will shoot me down for this) - with the Logic one, currently as I understand it only Emagic plugins/soft-synths publish their parameter names to the controller correctly.

To summarise there are a million paths to take, and a million reasons to choose that path - I just really think that the solution you propose in reality (not on paper) will just not be like for like.

You're talking about spending a lot of money here - spend an afternoon at a dealer, get him to show how to use the system, maybe get a loan system, then try to do a whole session - beginning to end, and see what works for you.

Also be aware you can buy some of your system second hand - that's how I got about half of my system and it is a much cheaper way of doing things - although you don't get the plugin bundles.

Best of luck, please let me know if you want me to explain more.

Pete
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2001, 06:59 AM
Nico Nico is offline
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

Hi JFk Studio,

I am not from America either, which gives me the right to laugh about your english.

Anyway, I don`t wanna get into a big "ProTools is the best" discussion, just wanna give you some disadvantages of the powercore to think about :
1 - Even though the powercore has it`s own DSP, it is not a all in one solution as protools is.
Look at protools as a computer inside your mac where all tasks ( passing audio, midi, plug ins, .... ) came from one system.
Powercore needs a host application, therefor it needs audio streems from the host to the card, and from the card to the host. This means latency and it also means that these streams have to be handeled by the host CPU.
2 - ProTools is still the best systems when it comes to integrate external outboard, FX, etc... No way you can do that with a powercore.
3 - powercore is out now for, let`s say 6 months, whith TC developing software for a couple of years. PT is out now for years and one reason it is so succesful is that third party companies are developing plug ins for years.
Maybe Powercore is an alternative in the future, but right now I wouldn`t spend XXX USD to get a TC Reverb ( which sucks compared to Reverb 1, Ren. Reverb ) and some other TC stuff.
Don`t take the money you spend for a PT system for the hard + software alone, think about the image of your studio and the compatility with other studios.

If you have any other questions, vontavt me at infoqfatbeat.ws.

Nico

P.S.: Where are you from ? I am from Germany by the way
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2001, 07:11 AM
snoopy snoopy is offline
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

I am using Logica Audio Platnum mow, using the digi hardware. Let me tell you, the audio editing in logic is pretty poor compared to PT. Everything is much hard and takes longer to do. I constantly find myself getting frustrated with it. I also get a lot of bugs (sometimes option+drag copies, sometimes it doesn't..) and also many lock-ups. In PT, if you want to manipulate something, you point at it and manipulate it. In logic its not always so simple. Now, hopefully PT's MIDI side will catch up with logic. Logic definately has PT beat in MIDI.
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2001, 08:50 AM
joy4u joy4u is offline
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

Why choosing PT?
Why do you like a woman instead of another woman?
Just use what you feel good with.
Anyway for now TDM is the winning engine, so you could use Logic, or Digital Performer with TDM.

IMHO Pro Tools is so simple and straight that i feel mad with other GUI
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2001, 09:35 AM
peteri peteri is offline
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Location: London, London, U.K
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

Good call!!

From experience Logic works so much nicer with TDM as the engine.

So even if you don't like the s/w the hardware will still be great.

BTW: I'm not even sure at the moment you can have multiple Powercore cards in one box.

Pete
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2001, 10:12 AM
uno1234 uno1234 is offline
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

The fact is, if your studio does not own Pro Tools, you will lose business. It's as simple as that.

Nevermind that the software interface in Pro Tools is vastly superior to any other package. In addition to the reasons mentioned above.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2001, 10:20 AM
mike connelly mike connelly is offline
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

Personally, if I was building a studio, (if possible) I'd wait until the next gen of PT hardware is announced and audio apps start shipping for OSX.


Mike
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2001, 11:43 AM
EthanMorse EthanMorse is offline
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

GO TO A DEMO! Or better yet Digiworld! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2001, 02:33 PM
jfk-studio jfk-studio is offline
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Default Re: Why choose Protools?

Hi again
Well this i like. It´s nice to feel that there are people out there who take the time to help another humanbeing. I have read all your coments and i feel that even if protools wasn´t the best system around it´s users must be worldclass. I think i have to buy protools just to be abel to play with you guys.
I put great vaule in your words and will consider them alot when the time comes to put the money on the table.
Then after that i will probably bother you all with strange questions like where to put the di in from the ad/da without having latensy on the hardware pluginoutinterface [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

have a nice day
Fredrik [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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