Is it me or ProTools?-tuning issues

[Terry Wetzel]

This is a weird one but I sure would like some input. Have any of you noticed what I will call an anomaly for lack of a better term. When I play a guitar chord tuned to natural pitch with either a clip on strobe or the TL in tune plugin, and I play it back it sounds as if the chord goes flat after the initial strum. I'm also having trouble tuning guitar to match my Yamaha DGX500 keyboard. I thought that a digital keyboard was supposed to stay tuned to natural pitch but there is a definite pitch difference when I tune the guitar as stated. I hope this is not an indication that my hearing is on the downside. Any comments that will help. Thanks.

[mjslakeridge]

When you say you are tuning the guitar by playing a chord, do you mean you have tuned each individual string and then played a chord which sounds flat? I am not aware of a tuner that can tune an entire chord (maybe there is). As for the Pro Tools tuning plugin, we have found that compared to a good stand-alone tuner, it is not giving the same pitch (can't remember if it was flat or sharp, but it was different).

Your keyboard should stay tuned perfectly. On some there may be a method to tune it to something other than 440, but I assume you didn't do that. What happens if you connect the keyboard to ProTools and insert the tuning plugin on the track and play a single note? Does the plugin show the single note is exactly in tune?

Have you checked the intonation on the guitar? Open notes may be in tune, but as you move up the neck the notes could be out of tune if the intonation is not correct. Try playing a harmonic right over the 12th fret, string by string. It should be very close to in tune if the intonation is correct. Of course if you are talking about an acoustic guitar, there is no real way to adjust the intonation like on an electric.

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by Tweakhead

Also, hitting a chord or note with great force on the guitar can cause the note to go sharp on the initial strike, and then settle back to your tuning reference.

I think it's as easy as that, Terry.
Just ignore the first few moments when the pitch 'lifts' a little.

[Terry Wetzel]

Thank you mslackeridge for your help. I do need to readjust the inotation on my Tele but It's not that far off with new strings. I'm not new to guitar,(Started playing in 1957)! I think that the Yamaha keyboard may not be in tune. It has a tuning option and in the past I have used it to raise the pitch 4 semitones which seems to be right with my guitar tuned to A440. I use a clip on Peterson strobe for guitar and I have noticed a difference with that as opposed to the TL intune in Pro Tools. And by the way Tweak. I'm not at all concerned with how Pete Townsend plays guitar

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Terry Wetzel

This is a weird one but I sure would like some input. Have any of you noticed what I will call an anomaly for lack of a better term. When I play a guitar chord tuned to natural pitch with either a clip on strobe or the TL in tune plugin, and I play it back it sounds as if the chord goes flat after the initial strum. I'm also having trouble tuning guitar to match my Yamaha DGX500 keyboard. I thought that a digital keyboard was supposed to stay tuned to natural pitch but there is a definite pitch difference when I tune the guitar as stated. I hope this is not an indication that my hearing is on the downside. Any comments that will help. Thanks.

It's not your hearing going bad but a more or less normal function of playing guitar. It's almost impossible to maintain the same pressure on all strings for the length of a chord. Tuning really depends on not only absolute tuning but also intonation as well as finger pressure (the latter can be a real problem if you have tall frets). It's very easy to change the pitch of a note just by how hard you press down on a fretted note.

Your Tele - does it have 6 separate saddles or just 3 with two strings sharing a saddle? The latter are a bitch to intonate properly and one often splits the difference between the two strings on a saddle.

What you use to tune a guitar can also have a huge difference in getting things right. As well as how you actually do the tuning. Not a fan of clip-on tuners or those based in software. I have an older Peterson Strobotuner (the portable one with the blue rubber overcase) that I love for tuning guitar. Remember that pitch will vary from the time you pluck a string until it settles out. I like to let the pitch settle before making an adjustment. Also always tune a guitar in playing position and not with the axe laying down with either the neck or headstock resting on something. Try and be as neutral as possible with the pressure your fretting hand has on the strings - this is so you don't inadvertently bend the neck ala Pete Townshend.

One last thing for now - make sure your volume controls are full up and tone controls are in a neutral position.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Terry Wetzel

Thank you mslackeridge for your help. I do need to readjust the inotation on my Tele but It's not that far off with new strings. I'm not new to guitar,(Started playing in 1957)! I think that the Yamaha keyboard may not be in tune. It has a tuning option and in the past I have used it to raise the pitch 4 semitones which seems to be right with my guitar tuned to A440. I use a clip on Peterson strobe for guitar and I have noticed a difference with that as opposed to the TL intune in Pro Tools. And by the way Tweak. I'm not at all concerned with how Pete Townsend plays guitar

I seriously doubt your Yamaha keyboard is out of tune. Return it to the original tuning (remove that 4 semitone business). If you really want to tune your guitar to it then use a neutral sound like a piano and just tune your low pitched E string on the guitar. Then do the standard guitar tuning thing of tuning the A to what the E string sounds when fretted at the fifth fret, etc (remember the B string tunes to the fourth fretted G string). That way if the guitar is properly intonated it will be in tune with itself.

Remember that most all tuning systems are compromises at best and there are some real oddities that can happen.

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Remember that pitch will vary from the time you pluck a string until it settles out.

Like both I and Tweakhead have stated already.

Can someone please explain why 17-year member Tweakhead's two posts in this thread was deleted?

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

Like both I and Tweakhead have stated already.

Can someone please explain why 17-year member Tweakhead's two posts in this thread was deleted?

Interesting about the post removal. If I go to Google their cached version only shows three posts - the initial one by Terry, one by mjslakeridge and one by Tweakhead - so even that is incomplete. The date stamps on the three are 'today' but I think that's referring to the May 10 (start date of thread). Here's the link to the cached version: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
I also did a pdf print of the cached version; I can provide what Tweakhead wrote if you want - let me know quickly. But I wonder - if I do that will my post quoting that get deleted as well?

edit for additional:
The internet Wayback site doesn't have this page at all
more additional:
Tweakhead's profile page doesn't even show any activity in this thread with his last post being a few days ago in another thread. Doesn't show a 'last activity' date in his profile like other member's profiles show.

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I also did a pdf print of the cached version; I can provide what Tweakhead wrote if you want - let me know quickly.

No need.
I've seen some inconsistencies on the forum from time to time - wrong date on posts, posts disappearing and stuff. Nothing serious. But this looks very deliberate.

His two posts were totally legitimate and unharmful. Makes me wonder if he's non-grata or something? Moderators?

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

No need.
I've seen some inconsistencies on the forum from time to time - wrong date on posts, posts disappearing and stuff. Nothing serious. But this looks very deliberate.

His two posts were totally legitimate and unharmful. Makes me wonder if he's non-grata or something? Moderators?

From what I could see in his past post back on the 6th of May he doesn't look like he's been banned or suspended. I just dropped him a PM asking about this.

I saw the one post via the Google cache; that was limited by the last date the engine crawled the DUC. The cached version from Bing only had the first two posts due to the date (5/10) of their last crawl. Wayback like I wrote has nothing at all on this thread.

It's for reasons like this I tend to quote posts maybe more than I should. Wonder what was in the one the Google cache doesn't have?