Working with 24FPS

[uno1234]

Hi

I am sound designing and mixing a cartoon made at 24 FPS Standard Defintion. I have Virtual VTR and a Kona LHe card on a second machine. I am having trouble with sync. I have set Pro Tools to 24FPS, and VVTR is receiving 24, but the sync is drifting. The SYNC I/O and the Kona card are locked to blackburst . What I have been told is I need to be working at 23.98 with a Trilevel Sync, either with VVTR Pro using pull-down, or converting the video file with Cinema Tools (which I have but have never used). This is the first time I have worked at 24 FPS. The Kona card does not support Standard Def at 24 FPS, which I guess is not typical.

Can anyone give me some recommendations on how to make this work with proper sync?

[minister]

hi there.

i have a setup just like that.

your issue is that your MONITOR will not play true 24 fps.

simply switch Pro Tools to 23.976 and engage .1% pull down. when you deliver files, remember to disengage pulldown so they can line it up with their 24fps timeline.

[uno1234]

Interesting... but do I need VVTR Pro? A trilevel sync?

[minister]

no and no.

what i do is pop the 24 FPS movie into Final Cut and transcode it to a 23.976 movie -- usually DVCPRO 50 -- so that i can match it. that movie goes in VVTR, then my PT is set to 23.976 and pulldown.

i did a whole animated feature like this and am doing a live-action feature like this. pull of the pull, print the mix at straight 48 and send to the editor.

[uno1234]

Thanks for these responses. So is no one using the Pro VVTR, or Trilevel sync? Will VVTR just receive the 23.98 from pro tools and be cool?

[minister]

well...

i use tri-level, but you CAN get by without it as i did for a while. i never had a sync issue.

VVTR Pro has a lot of features, but it is not MORE compatible with 23.976.... plain VVTR is just fine with 23.976 and HD codecs. (there is a .1% pulldown of the video capability in VVTR) the PRO add things like graphic overlay for TC and streamers...

[uno1234]

That did it, thanks!

[Frank Kruse]

This might be a silly question but since now more or less all screens, projectors, QT-cards are multi-format wouldn´t it be an option for people in the NTSC-world to simply set your QT-card to PAL and simply output all video from 24fps QT to PAL-video wich wil automatically playback with an additional double-frame per second so you will see your 24fps QT on a video-screen running with correct timing. No transcoding necessary. And most importantly NO PULLDOWN!


just a thought,

frank.

[minister]

interesting idea, Frank. problem is, many of the TV's and monitors available in America 'freak out!' when they get a PAL signal. They need to lock to some kind of NTSC feed.

[rhumphries]

This might be a silly question but since now more or less all screens, projectors, QT-cards are multi-format wouldn´t it be an option for people in the NTSC-world to simply set your QT-card to PAL and simply output all video from 24fps QT to PAL-video wich wil automatically playback with an additional double-frame per second so you will see your 24fps QT on a video-screen running with correct timing. No transcoding necessary. And most importantly NO PULLDOWN!


just a thought,

frank.

Forgive me, I'm confused by this workflow. What creates the 25th frame?

-Richard