Old school delay setup

[skylab001]

Somebody showed me how to do this years ago on an analog desk with a very old delay unit. I don't remember exactly how to do it, but I'm hoping somebody here can jog my memory and tell me how to do it with pro tools.

What I do remember is that you would use 2 channels of the desk, one was the original audio channel setup with a send to another channel, which had a single tap delay inserted, and bringing up the delay channel's fader was the feedback adjustment. Why do I want to do this, I'm just trying to learn some different techniques, even if they are dated.

[albee1952]

Well, I think you probably don't want to do this, but anyway....Back in the day, a 2 track tape machine was often used for slap backs. You would send a signal to the deck, using an aux send and output. The deck would return to an open channel strip. The deck would be set to monitor the playback head and the delay was dependent on the tape speed and the distance between the record and playback heads. Re-sending the signal from the return channel(where the tape machine was plugged in) would send the delayed signal back thru the tape heads(regeneration). To do it with PT makes little sense as the regeneration or feedback parameter on any delay plugin does the same thing. BUT, if you want to use an actual tape recorder as a delay unit, you should be able to do that following the scenario I laid out(using channel strips "in the box" and an aux send to hardware outputs. Return the tape machine to a new track). Now if you have a really good tape machine, you might try passing your L&R thru it and record the results to a new stereo track to see what that sounds like(by itself, not mixed with the original tracks). Or pass your drums thru a tape recorder and hit it hard enough to get some saturation. Once that is recorded into your session, nudge it until it lines up with the original drum tracks. Experiment and have some fun.

[Stig Eliassen]

What I do remember is that you would use 2 channels of the desk, one was the original audio channel setup with a send to another channel, which had a single tap delay inserted, and bringing up the delay channel's fader was the feedback adjustment. Why do I want to do this, I'm just trying to learn some different techniques, even if they are dated.

I think you refer to the technique where you'd instantiate a delay plugin (no feedback) on an aux, and then create feedback/repeats by feeding the delay back into itself via a send on that same aux. The cool thing about doing it this way is that you can use other plugins like filters, distortion, eq to create delays that will gradually distort and break up more and more.

[skylab001]

I think you refer to the technique where you'd instantiate a delay plugin (no feedback) on an aux, and then create feedback/repeats by feeding the delay back into itself via a send on that same aux. The cool thing about doing it this way is that you can use other plugins like filters, distortion, eq to create delays that will gradually distort and break up more and more.

thats it exactly. So my guess is that I send my audio track via "buss 1" for example to the aux channel(as well as to my "main outs"). My aux has the delay plug with 0 feedback on it. I set the aux channel input to "buss 1" and to send on "buss 1" back to itself and the aux output to the "main outs", then the feedback is controlled by the aux channel fader. And theoretically I should have a delay in which I can insert stuff into the feedback loop, does that sound right?

[Stig Eliassen]

Feedback would be controlled by the send fader.

[holden]

There's nothing really "old school" about this setup. I don't know of any delay plugins that allow you to put any processing in the feedback loop other than low-pass filtering. This setup allows you to put anything you want in that loop by bringing the loop outside of the plugin.

The danger in this setup is that you need to be very careful to keep your monitor levels down as you adjust the amount of feedback in the send. Unlike delays with internal feedback loops, with this configuration you can achieve feedback levels that will cause the signal to quickly increase to the point of pinning your meters. Sources of this problem are in both the amount of feedback and the gain of any plugins in the feedback loop. If your monitors are up when this happens your speakers and your ears could be damaged, as could any object between your hand and your volume control knob as you reach for it in panic.

[Stig Eliassen]

There's nothing really "old school" about this setup. I don't know of any delay plugins that allow you to put any processing in the feedback loop other than low-pass filtering. This setup allows you to put anything you want in that loop by bringing the loop outside of the plugin.

The point here is that you can use anything in addition to the delay plugin features to shape the sound, just like you can go crazy in a patchbay.

[Andre Knecht]

Originally Posted by skylab001

[…] I send my audio track via "buss 1" for example to the aux channel(as well as to my "main outs"). My aux has the delay plug with 0 feedback on it. I set the aux channel input to "buss 1" and to send on "buss 1" back to itself and the aux output to the "main outs", then the feedback is controlled by the aux channel fader. …

Now would be a good time to name your busses.

IHTH.

[DrFord]

LOL +1 andre

Now not to over complicate things, but you may find adding plugins like say a brickwall limiter set to a -0.1db ceiling and a threshold of -0.1db may be a good safety net. Just to make sure you don't loose control.

[ChrisMitchell]

Here. Kenny Gioia's Pro Tools Tips and Tricks page gives the mono delay session as an example on the right hand side of the page.

http://www.grooveboxmusic.com/str/pr...tricks-v1.html