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  #1  
Old 02-01-2012, 05:06 AM
Bato Bato is offline
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Default capability of midi controllers over 11R

Hi everyone,

I posted similar topic on elevenrackpresets forum, however i thought there are more registered users on this forum therefore more ideas.

I have realized that many of us have not experienced full functionality of the unit - MIDI control of 11R. Midi foot controllers are very expensive and not affordable for many of us. Especially to pay lot of money for something that is not fully compatible with 11R or does not support all features of 11R.

I came across Highly Liquid MIDI CPU that might be good start to build fully dedicated midi controller for 11R.

Has anyone tried to build something like that?
I don't know much about midi control signals and if it is possible to create foot (remote) controller that would somewhat replicate functions of 11R front panel buttons?
Would it be possible for controller to receive information of which effects are ON and which ones are OFF; What is level of certain parameter (ie volume level, delay input level, feedback, reverb type...)?

Any help will be appreciated (and it would help me decide if i should proceed with this project :)

Bato
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2012, 05:30 AM
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Benoni Benoni is offline
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Default Re: capability of midi controllers over 11R

I may be wrong, but i do not believe the Eleven Rack will let the 'state' be probed. Which means the Eleven Rack does not allow a MIDI Pedal to 'know' the state of an effect (on/off ect....)

If you want something that is a dedicated Eleven Rack MIDI controller - with ZERO programming - check out the EurekaProm from Eureka Sound for the Behringer FCB 1010 pedal.

http://www.eurekasound.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=balu7aTDPmg
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2012, 02:46 PM
moff moff is offline
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Default Re: capability of midi controllers over 11R

I think that CPU looks interesting. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

Bear in mind that the Behringer FCB1010 and the Voodoo Lab Ground Control Pro are the MIDI controllers of choice here. The FCB is about $125.00, the Voodoo about $400-$500. At those prices, you will have some stiff competition.

FCBs and GCPs have their limitations, either in the fact that they don't map exactly to the front panel, they don't have enough switches to control everything, or in that their use is awkward.

An FCB1010 with the Eureka Prom is programmed specifically for the 11R, but doesn't give you patch switching AND FX on/off at the same time - you have to change between operating modes to be able to change patches and turn FX on and off within those patches.

The Voodoo Lab GCP can be run in 10 presets/bank mode or 4 presets/bank mode, which will also give you 8 global FX on/off. In 4 presets/bank mode, it maps most closely to the 11R, but not precisely. Additionally, it has no built-on expression (volume/wah) pedals - you have to buy those separately.

To me, an ideal MIDI controller for the 11R would have 20 switches on top: 4 for patch selection, 2 for bank up/down, 8 for FX, 1 for tuner, and another for tap tempo, plus 4 more for relay switching (amp controls), two expression pedals, one with toe switch for wah (that's 21 switches on top), plus the ability to add 2 more expression pedals via jacks on the back panel. Each of the FX on/off switches should be capable of sending multiple CCs on multiple MIDI channels, for control of other MIDI gear as well. The controller should be phantom powered, but able to be powered by AC as well, using a standard AC able - NO wall-wart, and it should have a large display so you could read the patch details.

The Rocktron All Access (now the MIDI Raider) looks promising. I haven't experienced either, but from what I've read they're fully programmable. The All Access was about $1000, but it looks like the MIDI Raider will be about $400 (if what I've read is correct).

The Fractal Audio MFC-101 comes VERY close to my ideal controller, but now we're starting to talk more serious money - about $800 - and it has no built-on expression pedals. At any rate, all of the above are still less than stuff from Bob Bradshaw's Custom Audio Electronics. They can do custom controllers (at custom prices), but also have some "off the shelf" models in the RST series, with prices ranging from $800 for the base RST with 8 programmable switches, to $2000 for the RST-40 with 40 programmable switches.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:17 PM
TieDyedDevil TieDyedDevil is offline
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Default Re: capability of midi controllers over 11R

This is one of those areas where it's OK to begin modestly and work your way up to something more grandiose... er, capable.

An FCB-1010 is a good entry-level controller that may turn out to meet all of your actual needs for quite a while. The Eureka PROM will save you from having to learn MIDI programming at the start, but allow you to do slightly more sophisticated things as your needs grow.

It may take some actual use to discover what you'd like to do with a MIDI floorboard. It's tempting to ask for a board that'll do everything you might ever want, but in reality every board will impose some restrictions no matter capable it seems on paper. That's why it's a good idea to set up a lower-cost rig, see how close it gets to what you'll actually use, then plan an upgrade with the knowledge of the gaps between what you have and what you'd like.

There are plenty of MIDI boards out there. All of them will optimize for something at the expense of other things. Want lots of switches and expression pedals? No problem, so long as you can tolerate the size and weight. Want lots of deep programming capabilities? Be prepared to face a complex UI. And so on... There ain't no such thing as a free lunch...

DIY is another option, but you'll be hard-pressed to put together a performance-worthy board for what you'd pay for a used FCB-1010, even if you don't count the value of your time.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:21 PM
TieDyedDevil TieDyedDevil is offline
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Default Re: capability of midi controllers over 11R

Oh, and to give you an idea of what's possible, consider the Liquid-Foot+ 12+:

http://famcmusic.com/product_lf+12+.shtml

I just started working with one of these a little over a week ago, and it's blowing my mind.
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2012, 03:19 AM
Bato Bato is offline
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Default Re: capability of midi controllers over 11R

Thanks all for reply, i will get fcb1010 to start with and to get me play straight away.
I am electrical and electronics engineer and used to enjoy building electronic gadgets. I thought this would be some challenge to keep me away from TV and stupid reality shows. Also it shouldn't cost too much as i already have plenty of components (switches, Led's, microcontrollers...)

I just wanted to know, before i get into it, how much info can be transferred through MIDI IN/OUT ports and therefore is it worth doing that much research if control is very limited.

Going through eleven rack manual (and as Benoni mentioned) i got feeling that 11R wont allow "state probing" or it would maybe only allow playing around effects at selected patch (turning them ON/OFF but not changing effect, amp,...model).

Regards
Bato
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:51 AM
mlom mlom is offline
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Default Re: capability of midi controllers over 11R

If you are into DIY then have a look at this page: http://www.ucapps.de/
There are several projects there that could be a good starting point.

/Mats
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:27 PM
TieDyedDevil TieDyedDevil is offline
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Default Re: capability of midi controllers over 11R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoni View Post
I may be wrong, but i do not believe the Eleven Rack will let the 'state' be probed. Which means the Eleven Rack does not allow a MIDI Pedal to 'know' the state of an effect (on/off ect....)
I thought so, too. Tonight I stumbled across the CC button in the global MIDI settings page and looked it up in the manual.

When you turn on that function on the 11R, the 11R sends CC data corresponding to control changes. That includes the knobs and the FX buttons. In addition, it looks like (based upon watching with a MIDI monitor) there's some kind of protocol to send a newly-tapped tempo. The only thing that seems to be missing is tuner information; the MIDI output is mute during tuning.
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2012, 01:10 PM
texasdave texasdave is offline
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Default Re: capability of midi controllers over 11R

If you wanna go cheap, the ART X-15s are still floating around.

I tend to use the 11R as a single rig pedalboard, only changing FX within the patch for a given song... I could do a little tapdance with the FC300 and change patches (and may now that I've taken the TC Gmaj2 out of the mix) but the X-15s can do either and have 2 expression pedals.

all THAT said, EurekaProm'd Behringer looks both affordable and easy.
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