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Old 06-05-2012, 05:47 AM
texasdave texasdave is offline
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Default Controlling Delay settings with MIDI

Or, "Beyond just toggling effects off and on..."

I haven't seen this covered on this forum before, and when it dawned on me what I could do to manipulate the delays settings within a patch, I thought I'd go ahead and spend a few minutes sharing my "Breakthrough." I don't know everything about MIDI and I'll apologize in advance for messing up terminology somewhere, but we can edit that later and move on On the other hand, I know there are plenty here who could use a little help with midi controls, so here's my stab at it.

Preface: I have a couple of "core patches" that I rely on pretty heavily. I really like a ducking delay for general use, but more and more lately I'm having to use a time sync'd delay that is full on, usually dotted 8th note but sometimes 1/4 note, and sometimes requiring a much longer feedback (maybe just in one section...) So, if those were my main requirements, I'd have 2 sync'd delay times, 2 feedback rates, and ducking/non ducking. Without a programmable midi controller, that's 2x2x2 = 8 patches to capture all those combinations for use with a single rig (that is, you'd have to save the same rig 8 times with all the different delay combinations.)
Let's face it, that's insane... sure, you can grab the sync knob and change a parameter on the fly, but if you're already using a foot controller, there is a much better way...

If you don't own a MIDI controller and have never worked with MIDI, this is gonna be a tough read... You might want to skip to the end, say "Yes, I want to learn to do that."

If you're already using a MIDI foot controller of some kind, chances are you use it mainly in the following ways.

Patch/"Rig Changes"
Effects Off/On
Tuner Off/On
Tap Tempo
Volume Expression Pedal
Wah Expression Pedal


MIDI can transmit "Program Changes" that let you select your rig. I won't be talking about those at all.

Everything else above is done via "CC#" or Control Changes. Controllers like Tech 21's MIDI Mouse and MIDI Moose are JUST for program changes... Foot controllers like the Roland FC-200 and 300, the Behringer FCB1010, Yamaha FC10 have a CC mode and built in expression pedal that lets you set up your board to toggle effects off and on and control volume, wah, or other settings...

I use the Roland, but anything I'm talking about below can be done on any of these and even older units like the ART X-15...

Virtually every knob on every amp and effect within the 11R rig can be controlled by MIDI... Most of us never go beyond getting the distortion/delay/modulation effects dialed in and setting the pedalboard up to toggle those effects off/on in every rig we use...we can also assign pedals to control various parameters within amps or effects.

Virtually everything is controllable with an assigned CC#. The Eleven Rack has assigned each CC# and you can find them in the Manual (CH 9 of the latest one) or within the 11R led screen (PROPS to AVID for putting that reference list in there !)

If you're new to MIDI, THIS IS CRITICAL. The CC# will have a corresponding value that is transmitted as well. Those values are from 0-127. On your MIDI Volume pedal for example, the CC# that controls volume for the 11R is 7, with 0 being NO volume and 127 being MAX volume. When you rock the volume pedal, you're actually sending a bunch of CC values in a row, ... (I'm going to wish I didn't try to explain this soon...)

Now with a pedal (switch,) one of your parameters is typically LATCHED or MOMENTARY. Tap Tempo, Effects toggle etc are all done in LATCHED mode. In latched mode, the range of values is still 0-127, but you can't sweep a pedal, it's basically on or off... what the MIDI controller does is let you assign a off and on value for that pedal (still between 0-127) ...if you look in the manual, you'll see some references as to how this works with the 11R. For example:

DIST BYPASS 25 (0–63=“Off”: 64–127=“On”)

This tells you that if you assign CC# 25 to Pedal 1 with toggle values of 0 and 127 (or 20 & 80 if you want, but 0 & 127 is the way most would set it up) the distortion toggles off and on as the subsequent clicks of the pedal send values of 0 and 127 for CC#25. Nearly everything else that can be toggled off and on within the 11R works the same way...



Whew...............


Now again, most of us get to this point, and quit...

Here's what I did last night...

I set up CC latching pedals 8,9, and 10 with the following settings:

Pedal 8, CC# 35 min value 33 max 73 (controls Feedback)
Pedal 9, CC# 33 min value 63 max 83 (controls SYNC)
Pedal 10, CC# 73 min value 16 max 64 (controls EM Mix)

Turn Pedal 8 on, Feedback is around 57% (about 8 repeats) turn it off, 26% (about 4 repeats)

Pedal 9: regardless of the initial setting of any Rig with a DYN DELAY, Pedal 9 ON sync's the delay at a dotted 8th, turn it off sync's at 1/4 ... the reason is the SYNC is assigned banks of CC values that will correspond to those sync settings (see below) In our case, any value from 55-63 for CC# 33 is a quarter note...

Pedal 10 On sends CC# 73 a value of 64 which equates to "0" and off it sends 16 which is about -75% (the EM value knob ranges from -100% to 100% and you can see that 64 is dead in the middle of that range...) When it's on, there is no "ducking" and the delay is on regardless...turn pedal 10 off and it sets the EM Mix to -75% which is about where I like it for a ducking delay...

If that's soaked in you'll see that a pedal (Button) on a foot controller in CC mode can send 2 values within the range of 0-127. I've basically given myself 2 toggled presets for 3 knobs within the DYN delay, and since the presets are sent via the foot controller, I have the ability to toggle those same values within OTHER Rigs that also use the DYN Delay... and I now have short/long delay, ¼ or dotted 8th delay, and ducking or non-ducking for any patch that uses the DYN Delay…and I can change those on the fly…

For those who glazed over after Paragraph 2, I send my apologies in advance... hopefully this will help a few of you as you tear into making the 11R work the way you want it to... yes, the probably should have been a youtube video instead.

CC# 33 and 35 also have the same function for the other delay units within the 11R.


Texasdave



FROM CHAPTER NINE,

FX SYNC Setting Values
(CC values)
Off 0–4
Whole Note 5–14
Dotted Half Note 15–24
Half Note 25–34
Half Note Triplet 35–44
Dotted Quarter Note 45–54
Quarter Note 55–63
Quarter Note Triplet 64–73
Dotted Eighth Note 74–83
Eighth Note 84–93
Eighth Note Triplet 94–103
Dotted Sixteenth Note 104–113
Sixteenth Note 114–123
Sixteenth Note Triplet 124–127

Last edited by texasdave; 07-22-2012 at 07:59 PM. Reason: corrected error or two
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:53 PM
Benoni's Avatar
Benoni Benoni is offline
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Default Re: Controlling Delay settings with MIDI

Wow, someone's been busy!

You should really consider putting all of this together in video form. Just get it recorded. Then edit it down to the important parts. And slap it up on youtube. Im sure several would be interested in this.


I don't have the patience for programming CC #s, but you can do some really cool stuff using an Expression Pedal and choosing Multiple FX, then setup what you want to happen and how much, ect... its a pretty cool feature of the 11R.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:17 PM
texasdave texasdave is offline
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Default Re: Controlling Delay settings with MIDI

>>> Wow, someone's been busy!

Frustration can be a great motivator <laughing>... I found myself turning the same couple knobs on the fly to get the desired outcome and suddenly thought "I can switch between those two values with MIDI." I didn't recall a thread where people were actively changing sync and feedback via their foot controller, so I decided to write it all out.

>>> You should really consider putting all of this together in video form.

Yeah, I think that will happen... Might try a fast and furious one tonight, but might be next week... Fast and furious will probably be enough to motivate others to tear into it. I fully expect that if I set up those three CC# 's on a video in 90 seconds, we'll have a few people who say "That's it?" and want to dig in... then they'll figure out something much cooler and post it then we can use THAT


>>> I don't have the patience for programming CC #s, but you can do some really cool stuff using an Expression Pedal and choosing Multiple FX, then setup what you want to happen and how much, ect... its a pretty cool feature of the 11R.

... I think the point I want to ultimately make is that it's really not that hard to assign CC# to get a unit like the 11R to work the way you want it to. There is a LOT of uptapped power in these units.

BTW, hat tip to you for all the assistance you provide.

Texasdave
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