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Old 09-25-2016, 12:14 AM
jacko's Avatar
jacko jacko is offline
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Default 3rd party Thunderbolt interfaces: I/O tables for analog inserts

3rd party Thunderbolt interfaces became a true alternative to HD Native. Especially now that Avid decided to sell Pro Tools HD software as a separate product it seems this will be the way to go for many Pro Tools HD users.

Pro Tools I/O inserts work in a very basic way, which may seem not as configurable as other DAWs but it makes things simple.
For example Insert 1 will use Input 1 and Output 1.
For Pro Tools HD interfaces it has always been obvious and easy.
Third party interfaces do not always follow this rule and in some cases an Insert will represent unmatched Input and Output pair.

I will start with Avid HD I/O as an example of perfect I/O match:

Insert 1 - In 1 / Out 1
Insert 2 - In 2 / Out 2
...
Insert 16 - In 16 / Out 16

-----------------------------------

Focusrite Red4 Pre is the first 3rd party interface that I could get my hands on. Default channel layout is completely off. You get pairs of analog and digital I/Os for inserts and in rare cases where analog meets analog the numbers don't match. Luckily if you use Thunderbolt connection you may customize Output routes and you can configure I/O inserts in a proper way. Focusrite should think about including that in one of their factory presets. There is one big flaw though. Focusrite does not report correct latency. Parallel tracks with hardware inserts will be 3 samples too early causing phasing issues unless you manually delay that channel by 3 samples. So far other Thunderbolt interfaces did not exhibit that kind of a problem.

UAD Apollo Thunderbolt series
Universal Audio is the manufacturer that fully understands the issue and describes in detail how to match inputs and outputs on their website: https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/art...s-in-Pro-Tools
I tested Apollo's latency compensation and it was perfect.

Lynx Aurora 16 Thunderbolt
This is probably the most perfect interface for external inserts. The number of inputs and outputs is the same, the numbers match. Hardware insert delay compensation is accurate as confirmed on Lynx forums: http://www.lynxstudio.com/forum/foru...are-inserts-pt

Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt
I spent only short time with this interface but if I remember correctly, most I/Os are matched in name and number. Please correct my mistakes if you see any.
Insert 1: Monitor Out L - Input 1
Insert 2: Monitor Out R - Input 2
Insert 3: Line Out 3 - Input 3
...
Insert 8: Line Out 8 - Input 8
Insert 9: Line Out 9 - Built-in Mic 9
Insert 10: Line Out 10 - Built-in Mic 10
Insert 11: Guitar Out 11 - Guitar In 11
Insert 12: Guitar Out 12 - Guitar In 12
...
Then it follows with SPDIF and ADAT digital connections that are matched correctly.

I will update this post with some new information about interfaces if anything comes in. Thanks!
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Former Pro Tools HD user (from V7 until V12.6).
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2016, 09:04 AM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: 3rd party Thunderbolt interfaces: I/O tables for analog inserts

It has always been an option with Pcie interfaces, it's not new, Apple just decided Mac users don't get them anymore without expensive workarounds. We were using inserts with FW interfaces with relative success as well. The issue though is that it is still a pain to deal with. I went HDN for the simple fact I was sick of dealing with it and worrying about it. I insert whatever and compensation just works.
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