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  #1  
Old 10-07-2019, 01:20 PM
DHS DHS is offline
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Default Advice on Genelec system

Im about to wrap construction on a new mix room. Lord!!! Several delays and all kinds of permit issues we are finally getting close to integrating gear.

Im a little confused on the best way to configure my monitor system.

Heres what I have going in.
s6 m40 with a MTRX with 8 outs and a 5.1 system. 8341's with a 7300 series sub and GLM. Some of it has arrived some of it is in transit so just setting it up and testing isn't an option just yet.

Option 1. Run appropriate AES channels to each monitor. Use dadman software to create my monitor paths/Control room set up. Not sure how to do this exactly. Would this just send full range to all my monitors? Does GLM do bass management? The sub only has 1 AES input so do I need a 9301A to do this?

Option 2. Just go with he old fashioned way and run analog.

Anyone have a similar set up and willing to offer some suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2019, 02:42 PM
tklaavo tklaavo is offline
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Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

Hi, congratulations on the great setup!
We have two GLM 7.1 rooms. One has an older 7200 series sub with multi-channel AES/EBU ins and outs. The other has a 7300 series sub, with analogue i/o.

If you want to make use of the Genelec bass management, you need to go through the sub, and in my opinion it's totally fine to run analog line level balanced XLR's. It's all set up in the GLM software after the calibration, including the crossover frequencies. To do this in AES/EBU, you'd need the 9301A.

I'm not familiar with the MTRX, but I guess if you have the SPQ option, you could do the bass management there and just go AES/EBU straight to the monitors, no need for the 9301A in that case.

Note that in the GLM software you have to globally select analog or AES input for the whole group, no way to mix and match different formats.

Genelec have a forum with their own engineers participating, so you might get more detailed and informed answers there:

https://community.genelec.com/en/forum#/
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2019, 02:51 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHS View Post
Option 1. Run appropriate AES channels to each monitor. Use dadman software to create my monitor paths/Control room set up. Not sure how to do this exactly. Would this just send full range to all my monitors? Does GLM do bass management? The sub only has 1 AES input so do I need a 9301A to do this?

Option 2. Just go with he old fashioned way and run analog.

Anyone have a similar set up and willing to offer some suggestions?
The MTRX has a ton of AES already on the chassis (16 in, 16 out) -- you can use these for monitoring. GLM does have bass management. The MTRX has direct on/off to bass but no "bass management" (HPF/LPF) without the SPQ card. But you can send full signal to anywhere.

Not familiar with GLM (well, recent versions) but I'd think your best solution is to use the AES out of the MTRX for monitoring (sending straight out to all the speakers) and then use GLM for setup of the speaker system. Unless you want to spend more for the SPQ card.
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:18 PM
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gives gives is offline
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Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

As far as the Bass Management, I am not a fan.. I get my rooms tuned properly if you don't really know if your room is really correct.. 5.1 is a whole different animal as is Dolby Atmos. Maybe you have it sorted out, but I run 5 1032A's in my room with a couple more speaker going up in the front ceiling at some point when I get down time. Genelec 1094A Active Subwoofer as well. I am used to them and used them for a number of years with good results. Using a Dangerous Music Monitoring system. MonitorSR – By Dangerous Music Surround Expansion for ST/MonitorST -By Dangerous Music Stereo Monitor Control System.

I have a good recommendation who does consulting on everything audio including revising or designing rooms.. Also a great room analysis person if you are interested DM me or email. Gotta run.

G
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  #5  
Old 10-07-2019, 05:37 PM
DHS DHS is offline
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Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

Quote:
Originally Posted by tklaavo View Post
Hi, congratulations on the great setup!
We have two GLM 7.1 rooms. One has an older 7200 series sub with multi-channel AES/EBU ins and outs. The other has a 7300 series sub, with analogue i/o.

If you want to make use of the Genelec bass management. To do this in AES/EBU, you'd need the 9301A.

I'm not familiar with the MTRX, but I guess if you have the SPQ option, you could do the bass management there and just go AES/EBU straight to the monitors, no need for the 9301A in that case.

Note that in the GLM software you have to globally select analog or AES input for the whole group, no way to mix and match different formats.

Genelec have a forum with their own engineers participating, so you might get more detailed and informed answers there:

https://community.genelec.com/en/forum#/
This was the info I was looking for I think. If I’m going to go aes I’d need the unit. If I do add spq card I think it would be working against the SAM GLM calibration. Not sure there would be anyway to tell GLM I am filtering the LFE.
Thanks for this.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2019, 05:14 AM
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paulo m paulo m is offline
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Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHS View Post
Im about to wrap construction on a new mix room. Lord!!! Several delays and all kinds of permit issues we are finally getting close to integrating gear.

Im a little confused on the best way to configure my monitor system.

Heres what I have going in.
s6 m40 with a MTRX with 8 outs and a 5.1 system. 8341's with a 7300 series sub and GLM. Some of it has arrived some of it is in transit so just setting it up and testing isn't an option just yet.

Option 1. Run appropriate AES channels to each monitor. Use dadman software to create my monitor paths/Control room set up. Not sure how to do this exactly. Would this just send full range to all my monitors? Does GLM do bass management? The sub only has 1 AES input so do I need a 9301A to do this?

Option 2. Just go with he old fashioned way and run analog.

Anyone have a similar set up and willing to offer some suggestions?
Hi DHS,
we have a setup similar to yours, with Genelecīs and MTRX, the only difference is that is an Atmos layout. The system is working really well with no problems. Based on our setup configuration, my suggestion is:

Considering that the MTRX has AES/EBU as standard, itīs not necessary to waste money on more Analogue cards for your MTRX, than the ones you need for other gear(if applicable).

Yes, you need a 9301A if going AES/EBU. Itīs much cheaper than buying an SPQ card and the unit will become part of the GLM system for correct measurement and calibration. You connect your MTRX AES outs to it and from the unit it goes to your speakers. LR goes to AES in 1, C,Lfe goes to AES in 4 (mandatory) and Ls,Rs goes to AES in 2. AES in 3 will be spare in case you want a 7.1 system in the future. The unit has a dedicated SUB out and itīs there that you connect the AES in of your Sub. The 9301 is like a channel aggregator that collects all signals from your MTRX out and sends to the sub. The bass management and filtering is done on the GLM software. All DIP switches on the speakers, sub included will be bypassed.Then you connect you LR and Ls,Rs speakers in cascade, meaning thereīs a single AES cable(with two pairs) coming from each of the 9301A AES corresponding outs to each left or righ speaker of either front or surround speakers. For instance it goes from AES out 1 to front left speaker AES in and then from the same speaker AES out to the right speaker. Then in GLM, you choose if itīs frame A or B in the AES signal, so that the system identifies the correct L and R channels. Same for surrounds. The Center channel goes on itīs own to the center speaker AES in and thereīs no cascade as the Sub has itīs own connection as mentioned.

You also need to buy the GLM kit, consisting of the HUB, that connects to your computer via USB for communication with the GLM software and has provision to connect the calibration microphone(included) and RJ45 ports for daisy chaining all your speakers with CAT 5e or 6. The order you connect your speakers via ethernet cables is irrelevant.It goes from the HUB to your speakers in daisy chain, including the 9301.

Then in DADman, you assign the AES outs of Protools or whatever to the 9301. The 9301 uses an ITU configuration, as the C,Lfe need to go on the same AES pair, so you just swap the channel order in DADman if using Film mode in Protools. Alternatively, you can use ITU as default on the PT I/O OUT matrix. In our case, we decided to do it in DADman, is really simple.
Itīs also on DADman that you can configure your sources, talkback etc. and then control it via the S6. We donīt have one, we use the Dock, but I guess is similar with more options of course.

So, when the system is connected, you place the GLM microphone at the sweet spot and run the calibration setup.

Regarding the GLM setup, it really is not complicated at all, but I advise that you have the Genelec rep to help you or someone experienced that can show you the basics as there are some details that matter. Same goes on DADman, although you can find some tutorials on AVID Youtube channel that show how to configure things:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=avid+mtrx

PM me if you have any doubts that I may eventually help.
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Paulo M
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:35 PM
DHS DHS is offline
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 160
Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
Hi DHS,
we have a setup similar to yours, with Genelecīs and MTRX, the only difference is that is an Atmos layout. The system is working really well with no problems. Based on our setup configuration, my suggestion is:

Considering that the MTRX has AES/EBU as standard, itīs not necessary to waste money on more Analogue cards for your MTRX, than the ones you need for other gear(if applicable).

Yes, you need a 9301A if going AES/EBU. Itīs much cheaper than buying an SPQ card and the unit will become part of the GLM system for correct measurement and calibration. You connect your MTRX AES outs to it and from the unit it goes to your speakers. LR goes to AES in 1, C,Lfe goes to AES in 4 (mandatory) and Ls,Rs goes to AES in 2. AES in 3 will be spare in case you want a 7.1 system in the future. The unit has a dedicated SUB out and itīs there that you connect the AES in of your Sub. The 9301 is like a channel aggregator that collects all signals from your MTRX out and sends to the sub. The bass management and filtering is done on the GLM software. All DIP switches on the speakers, sub included will be bypassed.Then you connect you LR and Ls,Rs speakers in cascade, meaning thereīs a single AES cable(with two pairs) coming from each of the 9301A AES corresponding outs to each left or righ speaker of either front or surround speakers. For instance it goes from AES out 1 to front left speaker AES in and then from the same speaker AES out to the right speaker. Then in GLM, you choose if itīs frame A or B in the AES signal, so that the system identifies the correct L and R channels. Same for surrounds. The Center channel goes on itīs own to the center speaker AES in and thereīs no cascade as the Sub has itīs own connection as mentioned.

You also need to buy the GLM kit, consisting of the HUB, that connects to your computer via USB for communication with the GLM software and has provision to connect the calibration microphone(included) and RJ45 ports for daisy chaining all your speakers with CAT 5e or 6. The order you connect your speakers via ethernet cables is irrelevant.It goes from the HUB to your speakers in daisy chain, including the 9301.

Then in DADman, you assign the AES outs of Protools or whatever to the 9301. The 9301 uses an ITU configuration, as the C,Lfe need to go on the same AES pair, so you just swap the channel order in DADman if using Film mode in Protools. Alternatively, you can use ITU as default on the PT I/O OUT matrix. In our case, we decided to do it in DADman, is really simple.
Itīs also on DADman that you can configure your sources, talkback etc. and then control it via the S6. We donīt have one, we use the Dock, but I guess is similar with more options of course.

So, when the system is connected, you place the GLM microphone at the sweet spot and run the calibration setup.

Regarding the GLM setup, it really is not complicated at all, but I advise that you have the Genelec rep to help you or someone experienced that can show you the basics as there are some details that matter. Same goes on DADman, although you can find some tutorials on AVID Youtube channel that show how to configure things:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=avid+mtrx

PM me if you have any doubts that I may eventually help.
Thanks for this. We ended up going with a 9301 and AES. I've read the SAM guide multiple times at this point trying to prep for integration and set up. I've watched the avid videos quite a few times as well. How are you running atmos with the 9301? Not running ceiling speakers? I'm just digging into atmos workflows a bit more. Originally the designer of my room told me we were too small for atmos and that Dolby was getting more picky about certification. I'm learning that not exactly the case for home and content.
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2019, 06:46 AM
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paulo m paulo m is offline
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Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHS View Post
Thanks for this. We ended up going with a 9301 and AES. I've read the SAM guide multiple times at this point trying to prep for integration and set up. I've watched the avid videos quite a few times as well. How are you running atmos with the 9301? Not running ceiling speakers? I'm just digging into atmos workflows a bit more. Originally the designer of my room told me we were too small for atmos and that Dolby was getting more picky about certification. I'm learning that not exactly the case for home and content.
Youīre welcome Weīre running ceiling speakers as well, we have two 9301īs, the first is for the horizontal plane speakers and the second is for the ceiling speakers. We have a 7.1.4 configuration. When I say, we, Iīm actually refering to a studio that Iīve recently installed for a friend of mine. The ceiling speakers are also bass managed with a dedicated sub. Iīll PM you with the details about Atmos room dimensions and other requirements, according to Dolbyīs certification guidelines for studios wanting to work for Home Theater content like streaming, Bluray etc. The studio doesnīt have a certification yet, we just built the room around Dolbyīs requirements, just in case the studio owner decides to apply for one at a later stage. So far weīre very happy with the whole system.
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Paulo M
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2019, 07:09 AM
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paulo m paulo m is offline
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Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

Not sure if my PM was sent as it doesnīt show on the Sent folder. Anyway, herīs another link to the Dolbyīs for HT specs. The version I did PM was newer than this one, but pretty much the same:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...cification.pdf
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  #10  
Old 10-12-2019, 08:18 AM
DHS DHS is offline
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Default Re: Advice on Genelec system

Thanks again. This is information I had been looking for and wish I had found a few months ago. I even made multiple calls do Dolby and never got a call back.
The .4 is going to be my biggest challenge I think.
example

Still under construction and already thinking I’m going to have to change something.
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