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  #1  
Old 09-08-2007, 03:12 PM
dre41 dre41 is offline
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Default Save me some time..Please!!

Hi..I'm a newbie. Well sorta, just upgraded from 5.1 to 7.3.4 so you'll be hearing a lot from me until I get on my feet. I primarily do commercials for radio but I also make tracks. This will be my first attempt to incorporate Protools for music production so I anticipate a few bumps along the road.
My first question, I would to split a mono signal into a multi mono signal,,,can you tell me how? I have a purple audio mc77 which is a single channel leveling amp. I would like to come from the purple to analog input 1 on the 003 rack. Then output that signal to a pair of analog inputs to track. The reason you ask!! In my work all effects are "printed" or not in real time. So in order to print stereo efxs, I need a stereo channel.
I have used an aux input and mapped it to a stereo channel but it only increases latency. My hope is that I can set this up in I/O just not quite sure how to do it.
My second question,,,I have a great deal of audio files that were created and edited on 001. When I went to import they all appeared as text files. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance, I look forward to sharing thoughts with you all.
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2007, 05:34 PM
dre41 dre41 is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

Still stumped on these two!!

Version 7.3.4 won't import aiff files from 5.1.1. They appear as Protools le documents on G4 where they reside.

But on Mac pro running 10.4.10 . they are listed as text documents and are unable to load.

Also any help routing a single channel mic input to feed a stereo channel without using an aux input would be helpful.

Was told it could be done by digi..but no luck with I/O configurations.

Newbies are such a pain...I know.

Thanks



MacPro Dual 2.66 Intel, OS 10.4.10, 003 rack,
G4 Powermac, OS 9.2.2, 001
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2007, 12:13 AM
Slim Shady Slim Shady is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

A couple of things....

You have PTLE 7.3.1cs4, not 7.3.4

Secondly There is no need to record to a stereo track. I know that you think that it is, but it isn't. You can process a mono file with stereo fx all you want after it's been recorded as mono. You are doing nothing other than throwing away disk space by recording completely identical mono files in your conceived world of "stereo" recording. ProTools actually only works with mono files anyway, a stereo track in ProTools is just 2 combined mono tracks as far as the disk use is concerned (check your "audio files" folder - there are no stereo files in there, just .L and .R). There are also plenty of "mono->stereo" plug-in effects available within ProTools, and with bussing (after recording) you can acheive pretty much anything, but to do it at the stage of recording is really not worth your time.

Now, if you still insist, here's what to do. Create 2 mono tracks. Give them both the same input (input 1), put both in record and away you go. After the recording if you still feel you really must have it in a stereo track, create an empty stereo track and drag the two mono tracks into it.

As far as your old files from the G4, how did you transfer them to your new system?
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  #4  
Old 09-10-2007, 11:13 AM
dre41 dre41 is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

Thanks guys for responding. Needless to say, I pretty much expected a debate on my recording technique, although both of your tips make perfect sense in your use of the application, its a lot different in broadcasting.

In my original post I stated why I recorded this mono signal on a stereo channel, that fact remains. Stations all across the country use the same technique for radio imaging and multi-track production. We could get into a long discussion about this but I won't waste your time. But here are just a few points I'd like to make.

1. Radio production is fast paced. Not enough time for all the bouncing and re-routing. We know how to do it, but the spot goes on the air in minutes.

2. Plugins and effects play a large role in what I do. All effects MUST be "printed to tape" and who wants mono?

3. We are dealing with 60 seconds most often and you would not not believe how many elements and efx are used on eight stereo channels in that timeframe. Real time effects mixing would be impossible...trust me on that one.

As far as the I/O routing of the mic , I'm hoping to get this figured out soon. Its not a matter of "should I do it this way" its "how do I do it this way". I've run my mic through a mixer for many years and have done just fine recording onto a stereo channel. I was just hoping to bypass the mackie mixer and do the routing in Protools for a cleaner sound. If its not possible without setting up an an aux input, to send to a stereo channel, then please say so. Digi support says it is possible, but the instructions didn't "pan" out with me:).

Meanwhile, if you'd like to discuss recording techniques and processing in the world of radio. We can do that someday. It's different I know. But there's a "method to the madness".

Thanks Everyone!!
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  #5  
Old 09-10-2007, 11:22 AM
Slim Shady Slim Shady is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

Did you read my post? I explained how to do what you want.

Also, I've worked in radio and gone through all the tight deadlines etc. that you deal with. I still recorded my VO's in mono and them processed them in stereo. There really is no reason to do what you're doing, you're just eating HD space for no reason, but if it helps your workflow more power to you. Don't you ever run into massive phase issues though? Or I guess if you're broadcasting on terrestrial radio you don't have to worry about that since the signal isn't true stereo anyway.
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  #6  
Old 09-10-2007, 12:18 PM
dre41 dre41 is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

Slim, thanks again!! I am the voice talent and engineer on all my spots. Indeed, if I was just the producer and dealing with a single voice track, I would do as you suggest. But instead I would record in mono and copy the track afterwards.

You would have to understand my work and its flow to appreciate why I'm so persistent with my technique. Just let me say that I voice and produce simultaneously and practically everyone on the VO/Imaging side of radio, who produces their own material, does it the same way. It's just different over here dude!!

You must admit, that setting the signal routing to feed a stereo channel with a mono source in the I/O setup, is much simpler than the copying of tracks, and bussing with a aux input, which only increases latency. Something I dont need when "voicing and producing at the same time". (I know its possible that you may not understand what I mean by that).
If you really would like to know we can talk man, I'm sure we both could learn some things. Meanwhile, guess I'll have to spend some more time on the phone with digi support.

Thanks!!
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  #7  
Old 09-10-2007, 12:36 PM
Slim Shady Slim Shady is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

DUDE!!

You still haven't read my post. Or else you mis-read it. The solution is easy - 2 mono tracks with the same input source, when done drag together into a stereo track. No time wasted, no "copying" no Aux tracks no added latency etc. it's EXACTLY what you want outside of the single mouse click n' drag that you'll have to do to move the two mono tracks into a stereo track. Actually, in the process of typing this I came up with another solution that uses the insert/sends area but I'll hold onto that one for now to keep things from getting confusing, and if you want I'll post it later.

Quote:
(I know its possible that you may not understand what I mean by that).
Believe me, I understand more than you understand I understand. Like I said, I've done your job, pretty much exactly, down to being the VO talent, engineer, fx editor, producer, mixer, and delivery guy on radio spots. I didn't have to do it your way, but that's fine, I was just looking out for your wallet so you don't have to spend any extra $$ on HD space that could've been saved, but no worries, I wasn't trying to judge your techniques as much as just making sure you knew there were alternatives.
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  #8  
Old 09-10-2007, 04:01 PM
dre41 dre41 is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

Slim, I fully understand your suggestion but again it would not work for me. I mean no disrespect, but you do not understand what I do and the reasons for my recording techniques. I would be more than happy to explain but typing is a pain.

I must have a stereo channel when recording the VO. Not after, primarily because as the spots are produced elements and effects will be added that require different types of inflections and attitude on the VO. Therefore many lines are altered, deleted and or replaced as you go along. Copying every vocal track, every take and re-take would not work for me.

Imagine a movie trailer..big voice, intense music bed and sound effects. Now add this, chopping up the vocals e.g.(P-P-P-POWER) and we mean a lot of chopping, adding reverbs/delays, multiple music beds, a dozen stingers zips and zaps all in 60 seconds. And the radio station wants it by 2 pm. That's a part of what I do.

Is there a problem with wanting to set this up within the I/O window?

I don't want to appear as if I don't appreciate your suggestion. It makes all the sense, just not in my line of work. If a better explanation is necessary, someone else will have to do the typing.


Thanks
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  #9  
Old 09-10-2007, 05:09 PM
Naagzh Naagzh is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

Quote:
My second question,,,I have a great deal of audio files that were created and edited on 001. When I went to import they all appeared as text files. Any ideas?
IIRC, the extension on the file name switched when PT version 6 was released. It used to be .psf or something, now it's .ptf. Try renaming the session files with the newer extension, if it isn't already.

I must ask, though, how much additional latency are we talking about with the "mono-aux-track --> stereo-audio-track" suggestion? Or is it that you can't use LLM? Are your sessions so CPU intensive that you can't run them at 64 samples?

Since you were comfortable with recording two channels off your Mackie, you could just buy an A/B box, connect its input to the Leveling Amp, and the 2 outputs to inputs 1 & 2 on the 003R. Then you could actually record two signals to a stereo track w/in PT, but you'd better pray those 2 input stages are nearly identical on the 003R. I'd actually try inputs 5 and 6, just to get as far away from the mic pres as possible.
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  #10  
Old 09-11-2007, 01:15 AM
bluesboyiv bluesboyiv is offline
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Default Re: Save me some time..Please!!

I think we would love to help if we could figure out what in the world you are talking about. You want a stereo signal printed, but you don't want to set two mono tracks? Is that what you're saying?

So, you want something that will effectively be a mono input...sent with an output of 'Bus 1-2' to Aux input 'Bus 1-2' and that aux with your effects on it with an output of 'Bus 3-4' to a record enabled stereo track that has an input of 'Bus 3-4' so that all effects and everything will have a stereo track derivative from a single mono input? Something like that? In my line of broadcasting work that's how I would do it. Of course, you seem to kinda be high on your workflow thing. I see you mentioned that everyone on the VO side does it this way, ask them how they do it. But make sure you post back here, I would be interested in reading about it because I always enjoy learning new things.

Ian
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