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  #1  
Old 11-21-2017, 03:05 PM
notr2d2 notr2d2 is offline
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Default The 11Rack & Preamps

Hi,
I own an 11Rack & have just recorded vocals (w/ Sm7b), guitars, bass, & MIDI through it. But I have often been told to upgrade the preamp. So I was looking into getting a Focusrite Clarett or Apogee One mainly for vocals. Then I would still record guitars, bass, & keys (MIDI) through the 11Rack. Or would it be better to record guitars directly into the Apogee or Clarett & re-amp into the 11Rack? Is the mic preamp in the 11Rack good?

My Sweetwater salesman suggested getting outboard gear such as the Focusrite ISA One, Warm Audio WA12 MKII, or the Golden Age Pre-73 MKIII & I guess connecting that to the 11Rack's line input.

Any suggestions/ideas?

Thanks,
David
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Old 11-22-2017, 05:18 AM
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junkgear junkgear is offline
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Default Re: The 11Rack & Preamps

The mic preamp in the 11R really isn't bad, but it is not as colorful as something like the ISA One, Warm or Golden Age pres. Getting an external preamp and running it into the line in would definitely be a noticeable upgrade for your vocals, while keeping your general workflow using the 11R as your main interface the same. Another benefit of doing it this way is that you could add other external gear to your mic audio chain, building an external channel strip. I don't know what your budget is, but the 500 series modules are perfect for this task.

Replacing the 11R as your main interface with something like the Clarett can also be a good option. The mic pres in the Clarett are better than the ones in the 11R, plus they have the AIR feature, which adds a nice enhancement to things like vocals. The AIR feature on the Clarett actually emulates the sound of the ISA preamps, which you are already interested in. As for using the 11R with the Clarett, I would suggest you get one with SPDIF as this will make integrating the 11R more seamless. When using SPDIF with the 11R, you can still embed your rig settings in the recorded track, there is less conversion of the audio and reamping is a lot easier.

So again, both are good options. If you do a lot of vocals and think you want to experiment with different preamps and possibly other external processing, then option 1 may be better. This also keeps your current setup pretty much the same.

Option 2 changes your current setup, but if you use SPDIF, the 11R integrates quite nicely, you get better preamps and, if you go thunderbolt (Clarett), you will get lower latency through your system.
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Old 11-22-2017, 07:41 PM
notr2d2 notr2d2 is offline
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Default Re: The 11Rack & Preamps

Thank you so much for the helpful reply, Will. I really appreciate it. My computer has 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3- maybe that would impact which option?

Sorry to bring up the Apogee One but any thoughts on that working with the 11Rack as opposed to the other options? I ask because it's the cheapest & could be enough for my current needs.

Thanks again,
David
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: The 11Rack & Preamps

I don't have any experience with that model, but in general, Apogee makes great interfaces and the preamps are of a good quality.

Since you are on Mac, you could always leave both interfaces connected and create an aggregate device that uses the best of both the 11R and the Apogee.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:49 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: The 11Rack & Preamps

What kind of budget do you have?

If you like the Eleven Rack, don't need more interface I/O and just want to improve the vocals I might agree with the Sweetwater rep here. Especially since the SM7B can do well with a decent amount of gain in a sweet preamp. Have you thought about a 500 rack with a Rupert Neve 517 or similar?

If going up in interfaces I'd normally want something with a lot more I/O and just hang the Eleven rack off AES or S/PDIF. I'd prefer to stay away from switching between lots of separate interfaces unless I need to.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:27 PM
notr2d2 notr2d2 is offline
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Default Re: The 11Rack & Preamps

Thanks Will & Darryl for the help.

Will- what would be in the aggregate device (or how would I make one?) to combine the Apogee One & 11Rack?

Darryl- I guess I wouldn't want to spend more than $500 but if I can get something like the Apogee One for around $200 (refurbished), that would be considerably cheaper & meet my needs. Is it difficult to switch between interfaces? I guess I would mainly use the 11Rack & then switch over to the Apogee One (or other) when recording vocals.
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:09 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default The 11Rack & Preamps

Quote:
Originally Posted by notr2d2 View Post
Thanks Will & Darryl for the help.

Will- what would be in the aggregate device (or how would I make one?) to combine the Apogee One & 11Rack?

Darryl- I guess I wouldn't want to spend more than $500 but if I can get something like the Apogee One for around $200 (refurbished), that would be considerably cheaper & meet my needs. Is it difficult to switch between interfaces? I guess I would mainly use the 11Rack & then switch over to the Apogee One (or other) when recording vocals.
You will not hear any significant difference between an Eleven Rack preamp and an Apogee One. The assumption that you can spend a few hundred dollars and improve the preamp quality significantly is just wrong.

This is another case of what problem are you really trying to solve. The easiest way of solving the "somebody told I need xxx" problem is ignore that advice, or tell them to piss off if that helps. OTOH folks suggesting you upgrade the preamp *might* be doing so for a reasonable reason. We have no clue. But either way an Apogee One is *not* a worthy upgrade.

But again what *exactly* are you trying to solve? or improve in what you hear? A lot of folks might get concerned/confused about the low output level of an SM7B for example. You might be better off saving up for a different microphone... or doing nothing at all.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 11-25-2017 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:56 PM
notr2d2 notr2d2 is offline
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Default Re: The 11Rack & Preamps

Thanks Darryl for the input. Definitely made me think. I guess I thought all Apogee products had the same mic preamp but just differed in the amount of inputs.
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Old 11-27-2017, 04:35 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: The 11Rack & Preamps

Quote:
Originally Posted by notr2d2 View Post
Thanks Darryl for the input. Definitely made me think. I guess I thought all Apogee products had the same mic preamp but just differed in the amount of inputs.
I think Apogee build great products, in these case they will be fairly standard good quality op-amp front-ends and just not different enough from what you have already. But again thinking about exactly trying to achieve/solve is probably a better thing to focus on.
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