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  #1  
Old 05-14-2007, 07:08 AM
Sonic Nomad Sonic Nomad is offline
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Default 002 vs 003 some tests

Hi,

Firstly, I am no engineering genius – these tests are for my own perusal and I feel that some of you may benefit from them. Sure hope they help you decide on going for a 003.
As I have nowhere to post the uncompressed wav’s they have been encoded to 320kbps MP3 (yeah I know) and then rared and uploaded. Also the hosting site may not be very fast.

Listening to them on a 002, 001 or Mbox may not be as revealing as the 003’s D/A’s are.
In fact in a listening test we did this morning the 003 clocked to a fairly decent external clocked sound pretty good.

All External Clocking is provided by an Eventide H8000 FW. There is an additional take using the H8000's A/D convertors in the last test of each group providing a sort of "reference" for some people.

The packs are as follows;

Pack 1: Acoustic Guitar – Dry - 5MB - Pack 1

021_acstc_002pre_int_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> SE Electronics Z5600a II -> 002 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

022_acstc_002pre_ext_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> 002 Pre Amp with External Clock via ADAT

023_acstc_003pre_int_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> 003 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

024_acstc_003pre_ext_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock

025_acstc_vmp_003_int_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> 003 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

026_acstc_vmp_003_ext_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock

027_acstc_vmp_eventide_003adat_ext.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> Eventide A/D -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock



Pack 2: Acoustic Guitar – Hall - 5MB - Pack 2
These are the same as Pack 1 with the exception of a Hall Reverb – Some may find it easier to hear the differences on these as the “musical-ness” off transients is easier to hear.

021_acstc_002pre_int_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> SE Electronics Z5600a II -> 002 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

022_acstc_002pre_ext_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> 002 Pre Amp with External Clock via ADAT

023_acstc_003pre_int_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> 003 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

024_acstc_003pre_ext_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock)

025_acstc_vmp_003_int_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> 003 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

026_acstc_vmp_003_ext_dry.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock)

027_acstc_vmp_eventide_003adat_ext.mp3
Acoustic Guitar -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> Eventide A/D -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock)



Pack 3: Violin – Dry - 3MB - Pack 3

001_vln_002pre_int_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> 002 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

002_vln_002pre_ext_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> 002 Pre Amp with External Clock via ADAT

003_vln_003pre_int_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> 003 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

004_vln_003pre_ext_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock)

005_vln_vmp_003_int_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> 003 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

006_vln_vmp_003_ext_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock)

007_vln_vmp_eventide_003adat_ext_dry.mp3
Viloin-> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> Eventide A/D -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock)



Pack 4: Violin – Chamber - 3MB - Pack 4
These are the same as Pack 3 with the exception of a Chamber Reverb – Some may find it easier to hear the differences on these as the “musical-ness” off transients is easier to hear.

001_vln_002pre_int_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> 002 Pre Amp with Internal Clock & Chamber Reverb

002_vln_002pre_ext_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> 002 Pre Amp with External Clock via ADAT

003_vln_003pre_int_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> 003 Pre Amp with Internal Clock & Chamber Reverb

004_vln_003pre_ext_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock) & Chamber Reverb

005_vln_vmp_003_int_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> 003 Pre Amp with Internal Clock

006_vln_vmp_003_ext_dry.mp3
Violin -> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock) & Chamber Reverb

007_vln_vmp_eventide_003adat_ext_dry.mp3
Viloin-> Z5600a II -> VoiceMaster Pro -> Eventide A/D -> 003 Pre Amp with External Clock (Wordclock) & Chamber Reverb

I may do some more with spoken voice. Please let me know if these help. Pehaps someone can host the uncompressed 16bit or 24bit files.



David
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  #2  
Old 05-14-2007, 07:39 AM
685 685 is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

...
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:15 AM
Naagzh Naagzh is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

Quote:
(Clocking the 002 externally is a rather dodgy thing to do!)
It's important not to prejudice the rest of us! Wish you'd have left that little editorial out, but big kudos for doing the tests!

But you don't mention what external clock you used. And what Eventide A/D are you using?
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  #4  
Old 05-14-2007, 08:23 AM
Sonic Nomad Sonic Nomad is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

Quote:
Quote:
(Clocking the 002 externally is a rather dodgy thing to do!)
It's important not to prejudice the rest of us! Wish you'd have left that little editorial out, but big kudos for doing the tests!

But you don't mention what external clock you used. And what Eventide A/D are you using?
Sorry, didn't mean it that way.

David
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2007, 06:56 AM
NickH NickH is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

Hi David,

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to do these tests!

I downloaded the Acoustic dry files as they are most useful to me as a reference…

I listened to them in PT through my Apogee D/A
& studio monitors…

Sorry to be picky here, although I could hear some big differences in the files, they sounded much more like differences in mic placement than differences in pre amps etc… ( I am not saying that you changed the mic position, rather that the player (being the unreliable organic life form that they are) tends to shift position when playing & between takes…

This makes it very difficult to judge between subtle differences when they can be caused by mic position or pre or a bit of both…

I would love to hear a similar test with a re-amped electric guitar for instance, where the mic & source positions can be utterly fixed & the same exact source can be used for each test…

Many thanks for all your hard work... and sorry if I am coming across as being picky...

Nick
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:10 AM
Sonic Nomad Sonic Nomad is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

Quote:
Hi David,

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to do these tests!

I downloaded the Acoustic dry files as they are most useful to me as a reference…

I listened to them in PT through my Apogee D/A
& studio monitors…

Sorry to be picky here, although I could hear some big differences in the files, they sounded much more like differences in mic placement than differences in pre amps etc… ( I am not saying that you changed the mic position, rather that the player (being the unreliable organic life form that they are) tends to shift position when playing & between takes…

This makes it very difficult to judge between subtle differences when they can be caused by mic position or pre or a bit of both…

I would love to hear a similar test with a re-amped electric guitar for instance, where the mic & source positions can be utterly fixed & the same exact source can be used for each test…

Many thanks for all your hard work... and sorry if I am coming across as being picky...

Nick

You raise some very valid points. This is why I asked both the Violinist and guitarist to do her and his best to stand still during the recordings and "swap out" off gear. I then proceeded to do the recordings paying attention to both their constancy of position, levels and other recording snags.
I do plan on recording some samples from a Juno-106 and think your idea is good too. Will look into this.

David
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:12 AM
NickH NickH is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

Hi David,

However, having said all that, I will give you my impressions of the Pre’s (as far as I can discern, bearing in mind my post above…)

The 003 sounds by far & away the nicest to me, with the 002 coming in second, not too far behind the 003, but sounding harsher in the top end…

The Voicemaster pre, just sounded like any other Focusrite Platinum pre to me, nasty harsh & thin… and very far below the other two… (sorry, I did try and think of something nice to say about it...)

Cheers

Nick
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:20 AM
Sonic Nomad Sonic Nomad is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

Quote:
Hi David,

However, having said all that, I will give you my impressions of the Pre’s (as far as I can discern, bearing in mind my post above…)

The 003 sounds by far & away the nicest to me, with the 002 coming in second, not too far behind the 003, but sounding harsher in the top end…

The Voicemaster pre, just sounded like any other Focusrite Platinum pre to me, nasty harsh & thin… and very far below the other two… (sorry, I did try and think of something nice to say about it...)

Cheers

Nick
Well not having anything else to compare it with in this country that is.... the South African Millenia Media folk have been kind enough to offer a STT-1 Demo unit. This may be what I need to help hear the difference between an entry level and pro Pre.
The reason I have the Voicemaster there is more for Voice Overs.
What Monitors are you using?

David
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:51 AM
NickH NickH is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

Cool, it would be great fun to test that!

Don’t worry about it too much, it’s all subjective & I am sure a good engineer can make a great sounding record with any pre, (to a given value of any) it’s just a lot easier with some of the nicer ones…

I am a little more sensitive to the platinum pre’s as I have recorded quite a few albums through those pre’s in a Control|24 & became hyper aware of their shortcomings… So maybe I am a little too biased against them… Plus I have never used the ‘Voicemaster Pro, just the old Voicemaster, and no doubt the other features of the Pro more than make up for the pre…

Oh & was just listening at my home studio, not at work, so I was monitoring through some Yamaha HS50’s & a HS10, so nothing special, but the room is quite well treated though as I sometimes mix here..

Cheers



N
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Old 05-15-2007, 08:00 AM
Sonic Nomad Sonic Nomad is offline
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Default Re: 002 vs 003 some tests

[QUOTE]
Quote:


I would love to hear a similar test with a re-amped electric guitar for instance, where the mic & source positions can be utterly fixed & the same exact source can be used for each test…


Nick
Nick,

I've never done re-amped recordings. But I suppose thare's always a first time.
Any pointers?

A freind has a Marshall Valve State 65 Watt & Epiphone Gibson Les Paul. Do we go straight in or through his Korg AX3000? or should look a another unit?

David
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