powering on FOH rack with a control system?

[sonicboost]

I have a 2-part question about powering on a FOH rack with either a control system, or sequencer.

1st, is there a way to do this without hitting 'the button' on the FOH rack? In other words, when the FOH rack is delivered power, it just powers up automatically from a relay, or other contact closure device switching on its power source? And how do you do this?

2nd, is this a bad idea to do, and why?

I know I don't want to jack around with the BIOS - like you can monkey with BIOS on a computer and have it power up without having to hit the power button. Monkeying with the Venue BIOS I would assume would be a very bad idea.

Reason for my question: there are several times a week where a volunteer with only trained monkey skills would need to be able to turn on the house PA and open up 1 mic and a playback channel (AWANA in a gymnatorium). I'd like to make the power up process as simple as possible, and take the 'human error' element out of the startup process so that they couldn't possibly turn the amps on before the FOH is done booting.

Any ideas other than this?
Obviously, this is a fixed install. Its been installed for over a year. We are replacing the power sequencing system this week and to make it future ready for an eventual Control System upgrade, I'm really wanting to know if this is possible.

[Roland Clarke]

I would think the powering up would be the easy part, it's the powering down where you want it to be performed correctly. Why not make up an idiot sheet and then show said volunteer how to do it. To bo honest if they are not up to poering up and down the console, I wouldn't want to leave them in charge of sound, even if it's a single mic. IMHO, take the time to train the volunteers correctly, it will pay dividends in the end!

Regards


Roland

[albee1952]

I would not do it that way for one reason. The FOH package should be on a UPS, and the UPS would need to be turned on and off manually anyway.

[sonicboost]

The power off sequence won't change - all the volunteers understand that the FOH is 'the computer' and must be shut down as such. That's not my issue.

Right now I have a detailed power up, power off sequence, and everyone knows how to do it. But, as I said, this is our 'gymnatorium' - so it gets A LOT of use, and making it as simple as possible is a nice goal. Maybe not attainable, but still a nice goal.

The FOH is on a UPS. APC S15. As are all the other parts - stage racks are split between a pair of S15 APC UPS's for the redundant power supplies.

So, my question is still, "is it possible?" not an absolute necessity, just want to know if its an option. I'm looking for ideas.

What we'll probably end up doing with the Control System is have a 2-stage power up for the PA.
1. Turn on the FOH. (powers on console, then Stage Racks, wireless equip, then DSPs and all other sundry items except power amps - manual boot of the FOH still required after this stage is powered on)
1a - message on screen that reminds user to wait for "OK" on status at bottom right corner of Venue screen.
2. Turn on the amps.

I'm looking for simplicity. There are good reasons for this. I can think of MANY situations where this idea would be helpful. Something like this:
I'm home on a Saturday with my family, someone calls my cell phone to ask if its OK if they have "Mr. Smith" turn on the PA system because their regularly scheduled volunteer is sick, and the back up to the back up was in a car accident....
There are legitimate reasons to make this simple so I don't HAVE to drive up here to the building each and every time something like this happens. There are lots of folks who know how to fire this system up, and there are instructions "posted". However, the exception is the rule in this situation.

[Roland Clarke]

My only point Eric is that if they must know how to power off properly, this is (IMHO) more difficult than powering on. Anyone who can't grasp these basics shouldn't be handling the system. Outside of possible damage to the console, I would be more concerned about them taking out drivers on the stacks, this could prove very costly. As you say you already have a roster of people competent to run the system, surely you could get some of these people to be on standby to give yourself a break. I can't see that a power on sequence and automatic boot of Venue is going to solve anything.

Roland

[Roland Clarke]

I'm looking for simplicity. There are good reasons for this. I can think of MANY situations where this idea would be helpful. Something like this:
I'm home on a Saturday with my family, someone calls my cell phone to ask if its OK if they have "Mr. Smith" turn on the PA system because their regularly scheduled volunteer is sick, and the back up to the back up was in a car accident....
There are legitimate reasons to make this simple so I don't HAVE to drive up here to the building each and every time something like this happens. There are lots of folks who know how to fire this system up, and there are instructions "posted". However, the exception is the rule in this situation.

Realistically how often is this really going to happen?

Roland

[sonicboost]

every single weekend is a potential. I get a call like this right now close to once a month. But we've committed to using our gymnatorium facility increasingly for more programming in the coming year. This is my reality. Inexperienced users WILL be using this system. No getting around it. And the potential is there for human error to cause someone to fire the amps before the Venue is done booting. I'm concerned about that mistake taking out a driver.

Again - I'm just wondering if its technically possible, or has anyone tried this successfully?

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi Eric,

Here are a few thoughts and ideas...

If you really don't want volunteers pushing the power ON button, then a custom assembly that uses a low voltage solenoid to drive a plunger can be affixed to the FOH Rack and act as a virtual "finger". There are a few installations that use this approach. That said, there may be other options...

Assuming you're driving the PA from Stage Rack outputs, put the Stage Racks on the power sequencer and have them power on before the amps. The Stage Rack outputs are kept in a hard relay mute state until the entire system is powered on and ready to pass audio. There will be a slight pop when the relays unmute, but nothing too severe. Note that FOH Rack outputs do not have relay mutes, and can cause louder pops on power up/down.

To go one step further...

Using the Events list (Options>Events) it's possible to have the console signal to the control system when the plug-in racks are ready. This could be done by triggering a GP output (if you're using a Profile console) via the Plug-In Racks Ready action.

So, the basic operation would be:
1) Power sequencer turns on all stage racks and mix position gear except FOH Rack
2) Volunteer manually powers on FOH Rack
3) FOH Rack signals control system to turn on power amps.

Sheldon

[sonicboost]

"virtual finger" - thats kinda funny. Thanks Sheldon.
Listen, I don't want to be a knucklehead about this. Just wanted to ask of other users on the DUC if this was possible. If its not possible without doing something silly, I don't want to do it. You just never know when there may be a simple solution staring you in the face, and tapping the collective DUC mind seemed like the best way to check that. I didn't want to ignore this resource in searching for a solution.
I'm not bent on NEEDING to do this. I was wondering if there was a simple way to do it or not. If not, I'll just continue to be dilligent in training, and posting the appropriate warnings.
With other systems & widgets, we try to make them as idiot proof as possible without compromising the depth of use and control the widget is capable of.

[burpeee]

We have been using a setup very similar to Sheldon's Post. Our process is a simple control system. For one off events where someone just needs simple mic, we have our sequencer start up in an automix mode where there is a mic and CD-Player. If you turn on FOH, there is an event which flips a relay telling our AutoMixer to turn off and to pass audio from the console. Of course, we are using an SC48 and it appears the power-up sequence is slightly different than the other systems. I would agree however that it would be nice if there was a way to turn on the system and have it automatically turn on the console (w/o running a wire from the inside of the console or using a "Virtual Finger".