Avid needs to seriously change how they do business

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by UndergroundLab

But does Avid actually have any morality to its foundation as a company?

The moral of a company is to have a nice bottom line that pleases the shareholders. In that regard you're right, Avid is immoral because the stock price is down and they probably pay close to zero dividends.

If you don't like their products, don't buy. If "everyone" did the same, Avid should notice that behavior and change course. Currently though "everyone" apparently likes the product because they're paying, so there's no problem. Avid should charge more for its products, if the moral of the story was only pleasing stockholders. So there you go, the moral comes down to money.

If you pay enough, you can probably get Avid tech in-house taking care of your gear. Money. That is the moral of a company.

[UndergroundLab]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

This is what I was talking about in my first post. There's no obligation to any company to provide that freely, and if a company feels that they cannot provide that freely, due to their obligations to the share holders as a public company, then they will charge for it.

And lets not forget the unlimited email support (which can include remote computer control and/or can result in a tech calling for ease of resolving the problem without necessarily using your monthly allotted call.), which you simply didn't have in the past that is now available.

What shouldn't be a temporary license? You don't own a license, you rent it, wither it's a permanent license or a renewable license is up to the brand owner to decide what it is. Your option as a consumer, is to either use the product or not. But you don't get to decide over the actual owner what is to be.

Yes this I can agree, R&D could be a bit quicker, but they do still quite a lot, just check the number of bugs they crushed with every release, on top of adding new features even if for some those features are not that stellar, it is still a lot of work and respect is due to the workers who have put the effort behind all of that work. Don't equate marketing lingo and corporate decision to the actual workers behind the scene who are in the trench line working very long hours to get things ready for the deadlines.

I guess what I'm getting at is giving the customer convenience, especially in the pro audio industry where one is easily spending thousands just to meet the bear minimum of what studios like Skywalker Sound do. When Avid was first starting out in what, the late 80's, early 90's when PT was first created, I have a feeling that Avid was giving their customers a bit more of a priority than they do today. Regardless of how big a corporation gets, in this case, Avid Technologies, listening to and serving the customer is paramount. After all, we make the investment in Avid's goods, the least Avid can do in returning the favor is making their products more convenient.

Often, the shareholders you are addressing are Avid consumers themselves that just simply own stocks in the company. The reason I used iTunes as a example is because think of the resources, time, and money it takes to solve bug issues. Then on top of that, think about the generosity of offering these bug fixes at no cost to the consumer whatsoever. And Apple has their own role in the stock market as well. Granted, Apple is a larger company but at the same time, its a lesson not just Avid, but any company could learn from.

I understand where you are coming from, but what I'm saying is Avid should be putting the consumer first philosophy to work. The unlimited email support is nice, and I would like to believe if I went to the "Contact Us" section on Avid's website, I'd be able to do just that. I believe a license should be good for 3-4 years, not one, then give you the option to renew the license, or continue using the software as is, without revoking any of the features in the software (like Word does if you don't renew its subscription). It's just common sense. Instead of trapping your customers in a corner, why not just give them options instead of forcing subscriptions down their throats?

[Barry Johns]

The only part of the OP's point that I agree with is it is unacceptable that anyone have to be on a subscription plan for bug fixes. If we want to being morality into it, that is what could be classified as immoral IMHO.

New features, you bet, need to be paid for one way or another, but fulfilling promises, as in advertised one way or another features, it's just wrong on all levels to do that!!!!!!!

[TOM@METRO]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

Their only obligation is to make products and serve share holders, yours is to buy or not buy, that's it. The marketplace will decide who's right.

And this is the way we find balance in a free market.

Offering opinion can be positive and healthy for everyone, but there are times when one mans morality can be another mans bankruptcy. It's always "balance" in the end.

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

And this is the way we find balance in a free market.

Offering opinion can be positive and healthy for everyone, but there are times when one mans morality can be another mans bankruptcy. It's always "balance" in the end.

Once again Tom you've read my text and subtext perfectly!!

[TOM@METRO]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

Once again Tom you've read my text and subtext perfectly!!

That's because I was wearing my glasses.

[TOM@METRO]

Originally Posted by UndergroundLab

Secondly, Pro Tools, whether it is Pro Tools 9 or Pro Tools 12, needs to come with lifetime support, as long as you're using Pro Tools. And this is a perfect setup to where Avid is just wrong altogether.

While we all wish life were like this...

Wouldn't this be a little like buying a car and expecting the manufacturer to fix it free forever? It's hard to imagine a company staying alive that way.

If we ask for the unreasonable, we may not elicit the consideration that may be reasonable.

[Bob Olhsson]

Almost all U.S. software developers that are public corporations were operating outside the U.S. accounting laws law until recently.

At this point their only choices are to offer free updates until people are required to repurchase the software at full price, rent the software to users or make updates part of a paid technical support plan. Avid chose to offer a choice between the latter two. Adobe, Autodesk, Sony and a number of others went rental-only. Apple went with the first option with no discounted version updates.

People can complain all they want but Avid can't legally return to how they and most others did business twenty years ago.

[unkJE]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

Unless your product poses a health risk, no company is under obligation of fixing it freely ....

A definite health risk (Noise Blasts) has been well documented here on the DUC.

My wife bought Pro Tools 12 HD “early” (mid-January 2015).
By the time her Support Plan expired (at PT12.4), the Noise Blasts issue still hadn’t been fixed.
Fast-forward 17 months from January 2015:

Avid stated the Noise Blasts issue was fixed in 12.5.1
Avid Knowledge Base - Pro Tools 12.5.1 Release Notes
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/r...-Release-Notes
Bug Fixes
“Fixed an unexpected volume change that intermittently occurred when using non-HDX playback engines and starting playback from directly on top of a mute automation event”


The Australian Government has won Refunds for people who bought a product from overseas – and subsequently found that it was unsafe to use, or did not live up to what it promised.
Selling to Australians has enforceable International rules.
I don’t want a Refund – I want a version of Pro Tools 12 that is safe to use.
That’s what we paid for.




Were Noise Blasts really fixed in 12.5.1?

As DUC Member john1192 pointed out:
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2381054&postcount=3
“looks like the ideascale is for MAC OS ... does not say anything about PC ..”

DUC Member Dave/albee1952:
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2381121&postcount=4
My experience only; 12.5.2 was awful(constant cpu spikes and -9173 errors). 12.4 is pretty darn solid. 12.6 is certainly worth a try ….

Is this related?
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/r...-Release-Notes
Miscellaneous
Fixed an issue that could cause noise to appear in clips with fades when consolidating

Massive spike in AAE-6101 CPU use error since PT 12.7 - Anyone else?
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=387969


Please understand: I’m not ship-stirring.
I just want my boat to float safely.

[Dnnspv]

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

While we all wish life were like this...

Wouldn't this be a little like buying a car and expecting the manufacturer to fix it free forever? It's hard to imagine a company staying alive that way.

If we ask for the unreasonable, we may not elicit the consideration that may be reasonable.

Not really.

I got a loan from the bank to buy a car (like many who buy HD systems with loans i.e. credit card, financing, etc). Once the money was given to the dealer, I drove the car off the lot and now pay the bank a monthly car note. The dealership or manufacturer did not also charge me a yearly subscription fee to continue using the car that I purchased from them, then wonder why I am upset that the quarterly oil change and tire rotation are not free.