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  #11  
Old 04-02-2020, 03:16 AM
danyg danyg is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

holy ****, the folders can be solo'ed - thanks !!!
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2020, 03:59 AM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

So having experimented for a while and looked at some of these videos (thanks!) I think the whole routing folder thing is exceptionally confusing conceptually.

A routing folder auto-creates a new input bus (called, say, Folder 1). It has mute, solo, fader, automation. However the really confusing bit is that in most circumstances all the tracks in the folder do not automatically get routed to this new bus at all. By default then, all those controls on your shiny new Routing Folder do nothing at all.

So in most cases, a routing folder does not route! You actually have to do this step manually as normal, where you select all your tracks in the folder, and use the modifiers in the I/O panel to route them through your new folder.

There is one exception to this, it seems. If you right click a bunch of tracks, click Move To New Folder (note, NOT an existing one), then you do get a checkbox to Route Tracks to New Folder, which then works as expected. This, I think is the only specific circumstance under which tracks get automatically routed. (note also that it then puts this new folder INSIDE the old one, adding a typically unecessary hierachy).

Does anyone else think this behaviour is really odd? What's the point of a routing folder that doesn't route its audio to it? It's like they thought through 3/4 of a really cool idea and then just forgot the last step? A preference at least to always route new and moved tracks into a routing folder would solve all this confusion at a stroke.
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2020, 04:38 AM
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cmbourget cmbourget is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseboyuk View Post
So having experimented for a while and looked at some of these videos (thanks!) I think the whole routing folder thing is exceptionally confusing conceptually.

A routing folder auto-creates a new input bus (called, say, Folder 1). It has mute, solo, fader, automation. However the really confusing bit is that in most circumstances all the tracks in the folder do not automatically get routed to this new bus at all. By default then, all those controls on your shiny new Routing Folder do nothing at all.

So in most cases, a routing folder does not route! You actually have to do this step manually as normal, where you select all your tracks in the folder, and use the modifiers in the I/O panel to route them through your new folder.

There is one exception to this, it seems. If you right click a bunch of tracks, click Move To New Folder (note, NOT an existing one), then you do get a checkbox to Route Tracks to New Folder, which then works as expected. This, I think is the only specific circumstance under which tracks get automatically routed. (note also that it then puts this new folder INSIDE the old one, adding a typically unecessary hierachy).

Does anyone else think this behaviour is really odd? What's the point of a routing folder that doesn't route its audio to it? It's like they thought through 3/4 of a really cool idea and then just forgot the last step? A preference at least to always route new and moved tracks into a routing folder would solve all this confusion at a stroke.
Absolutely true. The routing record, on the other hand, serves our own logical ordering of our tracks, if we use it knowing that there is manual routing to be done. But more options at the right time would be smarter.
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2020, 04:43 AM
danyg danyg is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

Quote:
But more options at the right time would be smarter.
It's much input first for the brain but it offers superb possibilities.
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:59 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

I'm just having a quick play with it using a session I've just finished mixing, and I'm already confused by "undo", which seems to undo most of the stuff, but leaves folders hanging around which surely should disappear too..otherwise it's sort of a half-a-job Harry on the "undo" front isn't it.

Edit : Hmm, and then if you route something into a "routing folder", realise you made a mistake and just wanted a basic folder, you can't go back as you get a "can't undo".

Good concept guys, but needs finessing.

Last edited by midnightrambler; 04-02-2020 at 08:17 AM.
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  #16  
Old 04-02-2020, 02:09 PM
froyo froyo is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseboyuk View Post
So having experimented for a while and looked at some of these videos (thanks!) I think the whole routing folder thing is exceptionally confusing conceptually.

A routing folder auto-creates a new input bus (called, say, Folder 1). It has mute, solo, fader, automation. However the really confusing bit is that in most circumstances all the tracks in the folder do not automatically get routed to this new bus at all. By default then, all those controls on your shiny new Routing Folder do nothing at all.

So in most cases, a routing folder does not route! You actually have to do this step manually as normal, where you select all your tracks in the folder, and use the modifiers in the I/O panel to route them through your new folder.

There is one exception to this, it seems. If you right click a bunch of tracks, click Move To New Folder (note, NOT an existing one), then you do get a checkbox to Route Tracks to New Folder, which then works as expected. This, I think is the only specific circumstance under which tracks get automatically routed. (note also that it then puts this new folder INSIDE the old one, adding a typically unecessary hierachy).

Does anyone else think this behaviour is really odd? What's the point of a routing folder that doesn't route its audio to it? It's like they thought through 3/4 of a really cool idea and then just forgot the last step? A preference at least to always route new and moved tracks into a routing folder would solve all this confusion at a stroke.
Hello. I don't know if I'm completely misunderstanding what you are pointing out but I think there is a solution to what you describe.

As you mention if you select 10 tracks, right click and then select Move to New Folder you have the radio button to automatically route the selected tracks to that Routing Folder. In effect you create a new Aux Submaster for those tracks but it's now called a Routing Folder.

On the other hand, if you already have a preexisting Aux Submaster that is handling a set of tracks, you right click on that Aux and select Convert Aux to Routing Folder and then that Aux becomes a Routing Folder.

Do either of those two instances not accomplish what you desire? Again, apologies if I'm misunderstanding.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2020, 02:50 PM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

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Originally Posted by froyo View Post
Hello. I don't know if I'm completely misunderstanding what you are pointing out but I think there is a solution to what you describe.

As you mention if you select 10 tracks, right click and then select Move to New Folder you have the radio button to automatically route the selected tracks to that Routing Folder. In effect you create a new Aux Submaster for those tracks but it's now called a Routing Folder.

On the other hand, if you already have a preexisting Aux Submaster that is handling a set of tracks, you right click on that Aux and select Convert Aux to Routing Folder and then that Aux becomes a Routing Folder.

Do either of those two instances not accomplish what you desire? Again, apologies if I'm misunderstanding.
Thanks! I didn't know about the converting Aux thing, but it doesn't solve my underlying problem that only in very specific circumstances do routing folders behave has I'd expect. Really the whole thing feels half-finished, which is a bit surprising since the oft-stated maxim (with which I'd agree) is that Avid may be slow but when they do it they get it right. This time, I'm not sure they have.

The problem really is that only these two methods potentially work as you'd expect a routing folder to work. All the bread and butter methods don't. If I create a new track in a routing folder which is carefully set up the right way, it won't route with the others. If I drag in another track into a folder it won't route with the others either.

It feels like a bodge really, to the point where I wonder if it's worth the bother as I suspect I'll keep getting frustrated tracking down why some tracks are routed one way and some the other. The basic folders work as basic folders and are of course as useful in PT as they are in any DAW. But routing folders still need work to behave consistently imo.
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2020, 02:58 PM
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xrekcor xrekcor is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

Maybe you should give the manual a good read all this and more is covered in there. And you might learn a few thing while you’re at it, like the concepts behind what you are trying to do which is also important and makes things less confusing.... win win. Maybe even a short get you going course in PT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseboyuk View Post
Thanks! I didn't know about the converting Aux thing, but it doesn't solve my underlying problem that only in very specific circumstances do routing folders behave has I'd expect. Really the whole thing feels half-finished, which is a bit surprising since the oft-stated maxim (with which I'd agree) is that Avid may be slow but when they do it they get it right. This time, I'm not sure they have.

The problem really is that only these two methods potentially work as you'd expect a routing folder to work. All the bread and butter methods don't. If I create a new track in a routing folder which is carefully set up the right way, it won't route with the others. If I drag in another track into a folder it won't route with the others either.

It feels like a bodge really, to the point where I wonder if it's worth the bother as I suspect I'll keep getting frustrated tracking down why some tracks are routed one way and some the other. The basic folders work as basic folders and are of course as useful in PT as they are in any DAW. But routing folders still need work to behave consistently imo.
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2020, 02:10 AM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

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Originally Posted by xrekcor View Post
Maybe you should give the manual a good read all this and more is covered in there. And you might learn a few thing while you’re at it, like the concepts behind what you are trying to do which is also important and makes things less confusing.... win win. Maybe even a short get you going course in PT.
Thanks for your excellent condescention! Most helpful. I don't think you need a short course in that, you're clearly very well qualified.

The summary is - if you drag and drop a track into an existing routing folder, or add a new track, or right click the track header Move To an existing routing folder, your tracks will have a default routing and not go to the Routing Folder fader. In these cases without further manual activity, that fader will be inactive. However, if you right click the track header Move To a NEW routing folder, you have an option to route all tracks to that routing folder, or you can covert an existing aux.

If that works for people that's great, to me its clumsy and a recipe for a confusing mix. C'est la vie.
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2020, 03:55 AM
Blues Bird Blues Bird is offline
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Default Re: Folder Tracks (videos & blogs)

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Originally Posted by noiseboyuk View Post
Thanks for your excellent condescention! Most helpful. I don't think you need a short course in that, you're clearly very well qualified.

The summary is - if you drag and drop a track into an existing routing folder, or add a new track, or right click the track header Move To an existing routing folder, your tracks will have a default routing and not go to the Routing Folder fader. In these cases without further manual activity, that fader will be inactive. However, if you right click the track header Move To a NEW routing folder, you have an option to route all tracks to that routing folder, or you can covert an existing aux.

If that works for people that's great, to me its clumsy and a recipe for a confusing mix. C'est la vie.
This!
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