Anti-Piracy = hell for the paying user

[Mark Haliday]

Sorry for the long winded post :

I know this is an old complaint but I sincerely feel that things are getting out of hand.
I first have to say that I *deeply* respect plug-in creators for the work they do and I am fundamentally opposed to piracy. After all my future revenue depends on the fact that records I produce will not be pirated. I am *not* starting a new flame war against plug-in creators and software companies. These guys deserve earning money for there work, and since the good ones will earn more, they will create even better plug-ins (at least we hope they will….). So it is in OUR interest to support these as much as we can.
PIRACY IS BAD FOR ALL OF US. Sorry to shout, but this has to be said again, and again

HOWEVER ! This said I have a couple of gripes to air :

1) I am getting really concerned about the anti-piracy algorithms used by the recent stuff like the Sony plug-in.
Every time I launch Pro Tools, it takes almost 15 seconds on my g4 450 to load the authorizations just for that one plug-in. If all plug-in companies go for these 10000000 bit keys, we might as well never close the application !
I am increasingly worried of what will happen if I have a major disk disaster (s__t happens ). How long is it going to take me to get back in business ? New disk + format + restore= a few hours. Negotiating re- authorization with all the software companies involved : how long?

2) Another concern is this new trend started by Sony : when you buy the Oxford plug-in, it will only work in one system, and they will not deliver (or so they say) authorizations for another. This means that if I want to migrate to a recent Mac you have to pay again !!!!!! NO WAY NO WAY NO WAY.
...........addendum 9-23-2002 by the author :
Sony's position is a little more balanced in the real world now. It will allow migrating to a new machine but this has to be discussed directly with them ............

This a question of principle, I believe software companies should have only LIMITED control on what you do with it. Period.
And if you think I am coming hard on them please read again the first chapter of this post.

We have reached a point where the accumulation of different anti-piracy systems can create instability in systems. On my system I can link several software incidents in the past month to some kind of anti-piracy device.
It's crazy, some software (not PT) require that you keep the old application on the disk when you upgrade to the new one. It is also becoming increasingly dangerous to even attempt getting rid of what seem as useless extensions. You are most likely to provoke instant disaster. (see my i-lok post)
To conclude, software companies are trying to protect their interest and there is nothing wrong with that. But that cannot be at the expense of the users business security. After all, anti-piracy devices are also there to protect the paying user against unfair competition, and let's not forget that we users are actually paying for it ! Therefore it is *not* acceptable that the we should be the ones to suffer from this ! I do not see anti-piracy measures as something that should only be left only to software companies. This question should be discussed by users in a *responsible* way. *Free for all* is clearly not the solution since it will only lead to talented software creators bailing out of the music business altogether.
Software companies ask for our consideration, I now ask the same from them.

[john1192]

I am with you Mark, I have a system authorized, but will probably upgrade to a dual processor very soon. I have floppys from Digi and several other plugs and challenge / response from several others and now I have an Ilok for Autotune, (which by the way will not be ready for Ilok for a couple of more months). We had floppys for everything at one time. We could move our systems around. Say I have to go somewhere and do an LT RT mix, (as Dolby would not recognize my studio and I would need to go to say Universal for this), and they do not have all the plugin that were used for my session and I am under a deadline, that is ridiculous to begin with, and do not have time to rerecord my tracks with the plugs in question. Breath...Floppys took a long time but worked. Challenge / response is impossible without bringing the drive they are on with you. If that is your system drive that forget it. And now we have the Ilok.........looks good but we all need to be on the same damn page......and soon. And what if I have an Ilok and said studio I go to still has a 9600 running their system.....help it is a waterfall of technology and we are in a barrel heading for the brink....someone throw us a line..............too late my harddrive,(barrel), crashed and now I have to call all the manufacturers and plead for new floppys, challenge / responses, and probably the infallible Ilok as nothing is perfect. Take this from someone that has had S#$t happen. Sorry for the lenth of this......but it needs to be said...thanks for starting this Mark

[NuBus]

Floppies were/are fine.
Thanks to the Monte Method!!
What Happens when Apple drops USB

[KamaSutra77]

get ahold of your congressman and ask them to stop taking technology lobby money. In the mean time, vote with your dollars and stop buying those plugs, and where you can discourage others form buying them and using them.

[Kenny Gioia]

I don't know that not buying plug ins is a good answer!!

Here are my complaints. I don't like the Sony way either. I we really only allowed to use it on one computer forever.

Also, I think some of these plug ins are a little too expensive. I think if they could just cut there prices by 1/3, that they would probably sell 4X as much.

I think if these companies are tired of piracy they should make hardware that is required for their units. Connect thru USB or Ethernet. It can control their plug in with real buttons. We could have a rack full of these hardware boxes. And with the price of these plug ins the box shouldn't cost that much. The Phat Boy is only $189

[Kev]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Produceher:


I think if these companies are tired of piracy they should make hardware that is required for their units. Connect thru USB or Ethernet. It can control their plug in with real buttons. We could have a rack full of these hardware boxes. And with the price of these plug ins the box shouldn't cost that much

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep ... there was a time when the dongle was the way to protect software, and I think more companies should embrace Ethernet for this sort of controller job and free the midi port for instruments
....then again it would be nice to find a faster replacement for the midi port.

[tld]

The plugins I'm using now that have C/R authorizations all have either floppy authorizations as well, or at least a company policy where they will give you an authorization for a new drive or computer (as with Waves for example). It's understandable that these policies have limits, as it could allow someone to abuse the licence.

But when companies start selling expensive software that can truely be installed on only one computer/drive, I agree totally with a boycott. If this really is Sonys policy, I think a line needs to be drawn in the sand.

Tom

[Fidelis]

How much does the sony plugin cost? When I buy a piece of hardware, I can use it wherever I want... I'll never buy a plugin that can be used only in one computer!!! I have a 9600/G3400 and planning to go to G4. Then I have to buy it again?!?! And what happens when my/yours HD have some problem. Need to buy again? That's a big joke... .Buy a hardwhere and you can use for the rest of your life in ANY plataform... Fidelis [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Mark Haliday]

>>Also, I think some of these plug ins are a little too expensive.<<<

Compared to hardware I think they still are a bargain when you think that you can replicate them several times.
Also the programming behind plugs like pitch n'time is just awesome. They have to earn money somewhere.
Its sad but it is easier to sell for $2500 a boxed gizmo, although the actual hardware inside only accounts for 5% of the price !

>>I think if they could just cut there prices by 1/3, that they would probably sell 4X as much. <<

Tthere is some truth in that, but the problem is that TDM systems are a small number compared to native. If prices go down to much, programmers will all for VST !

As for the right method for anti-piracy, I am sure that the iLok idea is not bad, but I think users should get better documentation about this, and be given the tools to manage their authorization in a more central way.

The problem is the fact that dongles can get stolen or lost. This could be adressed with a system that would ask once in a while (with sufficient advance warning...) to connect to the internet to get an OK from a central server so that if your dongle gets stolen or lost, than you can have it inactivated and reload all your authorisations on a new one.
just an idea...
thanks for the feedback

[Kenny Gioia]

Mark wrote
>>I think if they could just cut there prices by 1/3, that they would probably sell 4X as much. <<

Tthere is some truth in that, but the problem is that TDM systems are a small number compared to native. If prices go down to much, programmers will all for VST !

It's not just about the markup price. If you can sell a higher quantity, then you make more money. TDM market might be small, but I'd bet only 10% of that market owns every single plugin. Why not get all of them.