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  #1  
Old 06-16-2007, 12:36 AM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

Hi!
I was talking with some friends today, and a remark was made:
"If I did not have my HD rig, I don't think I would be able to use LE. I would probably look elsewhere for a DAW to use."

Oddly, when asked why not, the person was unable to provide more than a few things (ok, several; but some just aren't that "mandatory" IMO) as to what the differences were that would cause this person who uses HD to not choose LE, since comparatively, LE would be too lacking. Of those things mentioned though, were:
1) No Delay Compensation.
2) Import Session Data too "crippled" in LE.
3) Too few busses.
4) Too few tracks.
5) No multi-channel above stereo; at least 5.1 would be nice.
6) Without manual voicing, doing comps is a nightmare.
7) "I know there are bunch of other things, but I cannot think of them right now..."

So...what are the differences between HD and LE that you feel are unnecessary, and/or are in HD that are also sorely needed in LE? Or is LE really completely usable by someone used to working with HD, and that it is simply, and only, pure hype surrounding HD that makes one feel LE is "too lacking"?

Bonus question: Name one- and ONLY ONE feature you would like to see in LE, or in HD and LE.
For instance, I would love to have MIDI editing capabilities more on par with Cubase. IMO, neither HD or LE come even close, since PT does not have a Piano Roll edit window, with separate lanes for simultaneously editing multiple CC's, such as velocity, mod wheel, etc. Having to switch between Note view, Velocity view, etc in a single track within the Edit window is so completely clumsy and awkward.

Shy of offering the HD software with ANY interface Digi sells, I am hoping someone "upstairs" at Digi catches wind of this, and maybe...just maybe...we might see a little bit trickle down over the next year or so!

(Digi- sorry, but I am cross-posting in both LE forums, as I feel this is a very important issue. I am truly hoping this will provide some real-world insight for you, and hope all who respond in this thread will keep it simple, to the point, and not turn it into a flame-fest of what we DO have. Done well, and articulately, I really feel this could make a difference! C'mon, we can dream a bit! )
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nikki k
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Sometimes ya just gotta put your tongue on the 9V battery just to see what all the fuss is about.
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  #2  
Old 06-16-2007, 07:38 AM
whitecat whitecat is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

ADC. I got most of the other features I was missing with DVTK2.

I think LE interfaces should include LE, and that you should be able to upgrade to HD (or a native-variant thereof that has all of the features sans the TDM support) for, say, US$499. Although it would be probably be more than that, as the DV Toolkit gives you a few HD features and costs way more than that.

It should NOT cost more than say a full retail version of Logic or Cubase.

There would still be incentives for pro studios to go HD-TDM (reliability, wider choice of interfaces/hardware, more plug-ins, etc), but Digi would cash in on LE users who need or want more features. It probably should be that simple, but it never is.
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  #3  
Old 06-16-2007, 09:41 AM
Stiff Stiff is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

If one can't make good recordings or mixes because of the few reasons you mentioned Nikki, it's because that people is a crappy recorder or mixer.

ADC would be nice, not that I really care, I use plug-ins that don't induce latency at all or just very little.

There are a couple of HD features that I like whenever I'm on HD, but they are so minor that I don't even think about them the rest of the time (around 90% of the time).

What I REALLY want is some rip-offs from Logic. For some reason, I'm more creative in Logic (talking about songwriting, can't stand mixing in it), and I really like the way you can double click a midi region to open a new window. That alone is gold. I suppose Digidesign don't want to add more windows, but Pro Tools have a real issue there IMO.

Other than that there's mostly hardware changes that I'd like to see... Expandable control surfaces, DSP cards and all that. Basically what makes HD HD so to speak.

With that said, I'm kind of happy being on LE 90% of the time, if I wasn't, I would work more on HD.
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  #4  
Old 06-16-2007, 10:29 AM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

Ahhh!
Stiff, u have spoken up (I think!) for the one aspect I mentioned: most of the advantages of HD lie in (mostly) inconsequential areas, and thus it is simply a "hype" thing that makes HD seem so much better than LE.... while also realizing that, yes, the extra HD software features would be nice to have. Just not...mandatory.

My thoughts were along the same lines, but when it comes down to it, if Cubase can do more (or Logic, etc), and one gets used to certain feature sets, is dropping to LE enough of a "loss" to prompt one to consider something else? And if so... what were the things in HD that would be lost going to LE that would be most annoying to lose?

Or, simpler still: as an LE user, what features in HD would you most like to have in LE? IOW, if Digi played genie, and you had 3 wishes- but 2 of them could only be things that HD has and LE does not, what you wish for?

I own Logic, and agree- there are cool things! (especially Sculpture) But, I actually prefer Cubase's MIDI editor window...well, that plus the MIDI button in Logic that allows one to use a keyboard to input notes...very cool!
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Sometimes ya just gotta put your tongue on the 9V battery just to see what all the fuss is about.
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2007, 11:13 AM
rogerhavoc rogerhavoc is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

Gimme the 5.1 Surround and i will be happy!!!

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  #6  
Old 06-16-2007, 11:21 AM
jre3132 jre3132 is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

Quote:
6) Without manual voicing, doing comps is a nightmare.
its actually not that bad. if you turn off the solo buttons for the instrument tracks you can just go down the vocals and hit solo for each take.
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  #7  
Old 06-16-2007, 11:51 AM
SoundWrangler SoundWrangler is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

Here's an easy one: SMPTE timecode ruler.
When you post videos with LE, using a QT movie as the master, it's annoying that you can't immediately talk precise seconds:frames with video editors without breaking out the calculator to convert from MM:SS:ms — especially when you know that this user inconvenience is driven by marketing ideology rather than any technical motivation. And at $1295, buying into DV Toolkit is pretty steep, when this would be resolved by enabling an additional time-units option in the ruler (plus the frame rate and start time selection fields, of course).
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  #8  
Old 06-16-2007, 12:02 PM
Stiff Stiff is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

Quote:
Ahhh!
Stiff, u have spoken up (I think!) for the one aspect I mentioned: most of the advantages of HD lie in (mostly) inconsequential areas, and thus it is simply a "hype" thing that makes HD seem so much better than LE.... while also realizing that, yes, the extra HD software features would be nice to have. Just not...mandatory.
When it comes to software features I definitely think so yes. For me the real change is in the hardware, both the DSP cards (of course) and the possibilities for a proper digital console. Both are important to me, the console part is perhaps most important. I think Digidesign has a real advantage over the other major players out there because of the way you can control Pro Tools with hardware, even in the LE field, but even more so with the ICON or Venue. The DSP cards could use an upgrade (seriously, they're getting old), but Digidesign is on top of things with controls. If I was to go Logic or even Cubase full time I would have a hard time finding a controller that can do the same things that the Digidesign ones can. For high-enders I' sure the EuCon and that telephone-looking thing can control a lot, but as much as an ICON? I'm not so sure. And if we're talking LE-land, then the Command 8 is dirt cheap, the 003 console comes with software AND the audio interface itself, if you take that into the consideration, you simply can't find a more affordable product.

So... I'm rambling... But I know you like long posts Nikki

To your other questions, the three wishes... Well, ADC, more tracks (two HD features) and a good midi editor (non HD feature). But really, I can do without ADC, I use all my favorite sounding plug-ins and they don't cause latency, besides Reel Tape Flanger, which is cool, but I can live with audiosuite on that ONE plug-in. More tracks, well, don't need them. I'm not Max Martin and my philosophy is less tracks is ALWAYS better if possible. Sometimes I hit the limit, then I mix down the stacked guitars or the 16 backing vocals or whatever it is that takes the space... no biggie, if I have to change anything have them backed up, just inactivated and hidden in the session.

Can live with them, don't find them important... The midi editor - THAT is important. It affects my workflow, and THAT is something I don't like.

Oh, one more non-HD feature - APPLE LOOPS!

More than anything I want a more stable LE,with Mboxes that don't come with annoying "USB held of interrupts..." messages and 003s that don't loose connection. Much more important than new features IMO.
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  #9  
Old 06-16-2007, 12:12 PM
Stiff Stiff is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

I do very little video BTW, otherwise I'm sure there would be quite a few things...
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  #10  
Old 06-16-2007, 12:39 PM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: What HD feature(s) do you want in LE?

Quote:
Quote:
6) Without manual voicing, doing comps is a nightmare.
its actually not that bad. if you turn off the solo buttons for the instrument tracks you can just go down the vocals and hit solo for each take.
Ah, but you do not get priority audio passing per track. IOW, with manual voicing, I can create a new track, assign to say, voice 1. I can then record, say, 5 vocal passes. Next, create 5 new tracks. Open the playlist for each vocal pass, or place each take in each of those 5 tracks. Top track? New playlist. Set all 6 tracks to voice 1. I can now use priority passing by voice assignment to make a comp.

In Cubase, you have Lanes. In Logic Pro, tracks get assigned to Audio Objects; assign a set of tracks to the same Object, and...lowest track receives priority (opposite of PT). Notice Logic does the exact same thing as Pro Tools (essentially). Cubase (and, of course, Nuendo) do the same thing by having all that material in a single track, and thus they "share the same voice, or audio object, to compare to Logic).

The method you describe, while it does work, is clumsy and time consuming, comparatively. IMO, Cubase has alot going for it, and Logic Pro has alot of interesting tools/features. And I believe that LE could be their equal, or at least close enough to being equal to be a more serous contender. Pro Tools itself is long in the tooth. If you take a very serious, long and educated look at Pro Tools, hardware and software, you will see things happening. PT 5->6 was huge. But, certain things suffered. I believe this is due to aged code laying about, and the issue of LE being drawn from the TDM realm, which is...clumsy and awkward IMO. Altura, old code, RTAS streamlining...these are but the tip of a decent sized iceberg. Further, I think PT7 was a positive sign of things to come, especially with MPT option being released. Digi is listening, and they cannot be blind to the chunk Cubase and Logic are eating. And actually, I think Sonar eats a bigger chunk than those two combined. And Digi didnt get where they are by being stupid. I truly believe if we provide "to the point" observations here, they will listen. Or, should I say, listen just a little more closely.
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nikki k
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
On the other hand, you have different fingers.
Quote:
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Sometimes ya just gotta put your tongue on the 9V battery just to see what all the fuss is about.
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