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  #11  
Old 03-08-2021, 09:44 PM
Ben Jenssen's Avatar
Ben Jenssen Ben Jenssen is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

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Originally Posted by joeldadrummer View Post
I record drum tracks for people and I've been having some issues. I have Delay Compensation enabled, but if I put my headphones directly in front of my snare mics and record click only back into PT (either software or a printed click) it's always delayed by whatever samples my hardware buffer is set to (512 - 1024 etc). So basically whatever I'm recording is being printed 'late' and isn't tight, definitely noticeable on faster tempos and any jazz/fusion stuff.
Of course, PT should automatically compensate for whatever buffer you have. HD or native. I don't know why my DUC friends haven't already made this clear earlier in this discussion.

Can you perhaps troubleshoot by testing with very simple one-track sessions, minimizing factors?
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:21 PM
indeloon85 indeloon85 is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

I think I narrowed down the issue on my rig.

Looks like the "Ignore Errors During Playback/Record (may cause clicks and pops)" has been causing this latency issue.
When it's checked off, the audio records later, when unchecked, it records as I hear in UAD's console.
I'd suggest playing with this ^
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:47 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

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Originally Posted by indeloon85 View Post
I think I narrowed down the issue on my rig.

Looks like the "Ignore Errors During Playback/Record (may cause clicks and pops)" has been causing this latency issue.
When it's checked off, the audio records later, when unchecked, it records as I hear in UAD's console.
I'd suggest playing with this ^
Yes, unfortunately this is a well known issue. And if the OP has been battling CPU errors may have turned it on.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:57 PM
indeloon85 indeloon85 is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Yes, unfortunately this is a well known issue. And if the OP has been battling CPU errors may have turned it on.
Ah! I had no idea about this. I know the option has been around for some time but I’ve always just left it checked off. Oh well, works now with it checked off.
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:07 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen View Post
Of course, PT should automatically compensate for whatever buffer you have. HD or native. I don't know why my DUC friends haven't already made this clear earlier in this discussion.

Can you perhaps troubleshoot by testing with very simple one-track sessions, minimizing factors?
Well some DUC friends (me) completely misread the initial post as being monitoring latency, sorry about that.

So to be clear Pro Tools standard compensates for IO buffer latency. It does it all the time. Pro Tools Ultimate/HD additionally compensates for some additional conversion time that Pro Tools Standard does not, but that's usually small, but can be a PITA sometimes (and then yes you might manually slide stuff around).

The "latency compensation" feature has nothing to do with anything except compensating latency through plugins. Just leave that off for now while doing the basic testing.

I'd encourage you to do what Ben suggests. Trivial new session, say record click to an audio track (internal send or whatever) and then play that through the monitors and record back to another track. Now use the selection cursor to measure the latency in samples (and tell us you sample rate). You should see a small conversion latency and latency due to distance of your mic from the monitors (be careful as I've seen people forget the ~1ms per foot latency, or in the funniest case record form a different mic then they thought many feet away).

And make sure "ignore errors" is turned off, but that normally does not explain a *huge* latency.

If you have much larger latencies you may have something going on with sends or more complex signal routing etc. (why it's important to test with a trivial setup to start with).

And there is still something wrong if you can't track below 512 samples and it it was my system I'd want to understand... especially if you are monitoring though Pro Tools you will have to understand/fix this. If you have alternative hardware/console monitoring or the drummer say is just playing to a click and not monitoring you are set... but the initial discussion with drummer headphones etc. made me think you were providing a monitoring mix to the drummer. .. hence the time travel comments about *monitoring*--I was assuming you were coming from a HDX world and expecting no monitoring latency. And with Pro Tools HD you have the Pro Tools controlled zero latency Mixer... you don't have that in the same way with third party interfaces (but they often have their own zero latency hardware monitoring).
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  #16  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:11 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

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Originally Posted by indeloon85 View Post
Ah! I had no idea about this. I know the option has been around for some time but I’ve always just left it checked off. Oh well, works now with it checked off.
I'm also one of those folks who just don't like having this on in case it also add a click/glitch you miss... and for any troubleshooting it's important to make sure it's off so you see AAE errors get thrown and then try to debug them. I know in a pinch it might be a life saver but I generally don't like it on and folks I run into tend to be the same... but not much of a sample size.
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  #17  
Old 03-09-2021, 09:54 AM
chris.d chris.d is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

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Originally Posted by joeldadrummer View Post
Interesting...I was under the impression that HW buffer was factored into Delay Compensation, otherwise every single overbdub needs to be shifted?

Also, I don't know how you track at 64 buffer? I can't track anything lower than 512 buffer, otherwise PT just crashes, even with no plugs. I was very surprised at this since I'm running a thunderbolt interface. So if I'm recording 16 tracks of drums or a whole band it's not worth the risk, and I have to use the apogee internal mixer to hear my drums in real time with whatever track I'm playing with, otherwise latency is unworkable.

With HD native yes I could track at 64 buffer fine.

I find this quite odd, but

must be thunderbolt issue, don't you think?


i can track 32 tracks 48kHz at 64 buffer on a 'old silver' around 2015 mac book pro (the one that still has SD-Card slot)
RME UFX USB2 or DANTE Network as interfaces

(no plug-ins, though)
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2021, 11:11 PM
joeldadrummer joeldadrummer is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

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Originally Posted by chris.d View Post
must be thunderbolt issue, don't you think?


i can track 32 tracks 48kHz at 64 buffer on a 'old silver' around 2015 mac book pro (the one that still has SD-Card slot)
RME UFX USB2 or DANTE Network as interfaces

(no plug-ins, though)

Hey Chris. Possibly, what might I do to troubleshoot this, or is thunderbolt known for this? I've tried different cables.
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2021, 11:16 PM
joeldadrummer joeldadrummer is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by indeloon85 View Post
I think I narrowed down the issue on my rig.

Looks like the "Ignore Errors During Playback/Record (may cause clicks and pops)" has been causing this latency issue.
When it's checked off, the audio records later, when unchecked, it records as I hear in UAD's console.
I'd suggest playing with this ^
First of all, thank you so much to all who have replied and helped! Yes this was the problem. I've unchecked "Ignore Errors During Playback/Record" and now everything is lining up as it should, Yay! I had no idea about this 'bug', how might I have known about this? Seems like kind of a big bug so I'm surprised I had not heard of it.

I'll try and troubleshoot why my system cannot run at lower buffer speeds, I really have no idea. I asked apogee about it and they blamed PT, and as I said I know other musicians with the same issues. But I'll keep trying. I went through the optimization steps and all is right, except at the moment I have to keep Wifi on so I can remote control my computer using screen sharing from my Drum Kit, but maybe that is the problem? I'm not sure how else to remote control my machine, and I'm not convinced that is the issue here.

thanks so much for your help!
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  #20  
Old 03-09-2021, 11:50 PM
chris.d chris.d is offline
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Default Re: Delay Compensation and HW Buffer issues

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Originally Posted by joeldadrummer View Post
Hey Chris. Possibly, what might I do to troubleshoot this, or is thunderbolt known for this? I've tried different cables.

I don't have any experience with that, i'm afraid. The only and easiest thing i would try is to check with another non TB interface if you have access.
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