is there a simple way to record v drums...

[jdoubled68]

can anyone tell me the easiest way to record a td-10 v drum set into pro tools le and get 8 separate tracks recorded at once ? i have the rack+ 003 interface or whatever, and an 8 line 1/4" snake. the best i get is 2 tracks at once, in stereo. im not sure if im opening the right type os session etc. this is frustrating me to no end. i actually thought this would be easier than mic'ing up real drums into a real recording device...it makes ZERO sense to me after hours and hours, and headaches for days.
i have the v drums panned and grouped but they arent going into 8 tracks, in fact, im merely getting group 1 from the v drums (which is kick panned hard left and snare panned hard right) into tracks 1 and 2...thats all i can get tho.

[kaiserpathos]

I believe all you get on TD-10 are stereo outputs, so you can't get discrete separate tracks into your interface at all.

Better way, and the only way I've EVER been able to do this, is MIDI from TD-10 to trigger a (better) sampler in the DAW: TD-10 + MIDI --> Toontrack EZDrummer (or Superior, Steven Slate etc) running as a plug in PT. Bam, 8 tracks...done.

Using a MIDI sampler (EZD or Superior, Steven Slate, etc) you're just using the TD-10 as a trigger of the plug-in's samples....the plug-in can then pipe each and every drum to its own track. I don't think you can do this without MIDI, all you have on the drum brain is 2-channel stereo.

[jdoubled68]

there is no "use this type of session for 8 direct lines in at once" in the manual. i have tried every combination and cannot get anything but the first 2 tracks and thats just the kick/snare panned in one group from the v drum brain.

[jdoubled68]

so what else do i need to make that happen exactly ? im about to just toss this and buy a real drum set and mic it...christ.
i have the td10 and pro tools le with the rack+ 003 right now, im just hesitant to buy anything else when i thought this would allow me to sit down and record drum tracks

[jdoubled68]

basically, does ezdrummer involve another piece of gear as well ?

[kaiserpathos]

Well, what you're wanting to do is totally doable for about another $100-$189 (depending on which drum sampler VI you buy -- I'm partial to EZ Drummer, I use it with my V-Drum brain and get the most realistic drums on separate tracks...no mics or drumskins).

If you have a great room to record in, you sound like you'd be more comfortable with real drums. If not, read on...but you'll have to touch the "Dreaded MIDI" that most musicians hate at first, but if you give it the time you'll love it if your goal is to silently record realistic drums in any "untreated room".

So, 10 steps to get your v-drums to be separate tracks in PT (and possibly sound much much much better than the sampled sounds of the TD10). Here they are along w/ the signal-path:

1. basically your 003 interface has 2 MIDI ports on it that your computer & Pro Tools can both see/use.
2. your TD-10 has MIDI ports
3. you get a MIDI cable & connect the in/out MIDI of the TD-10 to the in/out MIDI ports on the 003
4. load up a PT session and create 2 tracks: a MIDI track and a STEREO Instrument track.
5. set the MIDI track to listen on a MIDI channel your TD-10 is on (usually channel A) -- after this step, PT MIDI track is mapped to your v-drums
6. set the stereo instrument track to use your drum sampler plug-in (EZ Drummer or whatever) and then set the instrument track to take its MIDI input from the MIDI track you just set up. Voila -- you hit a pad, and the sound comes from the sampler over in Pro Tools. the TD-10 will send velocities etc right into EZ Drummer
7. So now, you are able to "record" your V-Drum performance in PT, but EZ Drummer and other samplers, by default, only record MIDI notes (not sound, just MIDI data). So, once you record your "perfect" drum take into the sampler -- you next nee to make the sounds you hear in PT go to separate tracks. So you gotta tell EZ Drummer (or whatever sampler you choose) to output itself to separate tracks (by default all Virtual Instruments record the MIDI performance, you gotta tell them to "output to a track" so that you have a wav file of the performance)
8. Create separate MONO audio tracks for all the drum pieces (snare top/ snare bottom/kick etc), and 2 STEREO tracks for Overhead & Room.
9. Set your Drum Sampler plug-in's mixer to record each piece to the separate drums (EZ Drummer makes this pretty easy, can you tell I'm partial to EZ Drummer?)
10. Arm these tracks you just created to Record, they are routed-to from Drum Sampler. Last...hit play/record and your previous MIDI recording in the Drum Sampler flows into separate tracks....voila, real actual tracks of audio of great drums that you can EQ/mix later...

This is easier than it sounds, but I won't lie and say it's easy as "1-2-3" for a beginner with MIDI -- you'll stumble a couple times getting MIDI to work and learning the drum sampler you buy. Usually takes your avg musician about 2-3 weeks to nail all this...but patience will be rewarded. Producers use products like Superior Drummer etc all the time to get realistic drum recordings in any studio environment. Usually they don't use v-drums, though, they more often attach MIDI triggers to real drum kits and this allows them to replace the drums (it's a fallback) if the performance or other factors sucked.

A link on separate track outputs in EZ Drummer in PT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U33Qf6uVnPM

[jdoubled68]

wow ! ill try that then. any idea on the difference between ezdrummer and superior drummer ?
so the plug in just goes onto my computer and then i have what ill need ?
...and thanks !!

[albee1952]

Once you hear the sounds from ezdrummer or SD2, I doubt you will want to record the V-drum sounds(but it can be done). Both drum VI's are good, but both benefit from expansion packs. SD2 has 1 great advantage in that it can use SDX expansion packs, AND all the EZX packs from ezdrummer as well. Check out the options at toontrack.com. Meanwhile, here is a paste from an older posting:

Actually, you can record 8 outputs from the TD-10(I have done it lots). Since its a bit of a PITA, and your edits on the TD-10 are saved(whether you want to or not), I suggest finding the kit the drummer wants and use the COPY function to duplicate it over some un-used kit. Then go to the duplicate kit and re-assign the outputs as follows; leave the TOMS going out the MAIN outs. Send KICK and SNARE to another pair(pan each hard L&R), HAT and RIDE to a second pair of outs(pan hard L&R) and both crashes to the third set of outputs(also panned hard L&R). Now you have 8 sends from the TD-10. Use unbalanced cables(I used a Hosa 8 channel snake into the first 8 line inputs of the 002 when I ran this way). In your session, create 6 mono and 1 stereo audio track(stereo TOMS) and you may as well record a midi track as well.(that way you can correct any mistakes on the midi and re-record the audio using the midi track to "play" the kit).

Now I just use the midi from the TD-10 and create a stereo instrument track with ezdrummer or Superior Drummer inserted. Set the buffer at 64 and while the drummer plays the TD-10 kit, you hear the sounds of the plugin(which are a lot better IMHO).

In either case, Disconnect the returning midi cable)to the TD-10 midi IN (so you don't get double-triggering). You will likely get some ghost notes on your midi/instrument track from cross-triggering, but its an easy task to go thru the track and delete them if they bug you. An even better scenario is to do the above, but put up a real hihat and cymbals and 3 microphones.

[jdoubled68]

awesome, thanks to you both ! ill try this method as soon as i get paid :)

[nst7]

For your info, EZ Drummer is 16 bit. Superior Drummer is 24 bit and has more articulations/velocities, etc. EZ drummer is basically a "lite" version.

Right now a few places have Superior drummer on sale, and you get a free expansion pack. This is a great deal.

Here's the page at musiciansfriend.com

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...SDX?sku=486140

Not only that, but click on their home page and they have a coupon where you get $50 off a purchase of $250 or more. Since this is $249, just add in something else that costs a couple of dollars and you're there (maybe a guitar polishing cloth or something).

For your free Expansion pack, I would recommend the New York Studios Vol. 2.