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  #1  
Old 08-07-2002, 05:54 PM
Alécio Costa's Avatar
Alécio Costa Alécio Costa is offline
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Default any tips for improving mixing/mastering a small orchestra?

Hi friends!
I am finishing the production of the fourth Cd of a local small orchestra.

The project is tight on a budget, it was entirely done with PT 5.1.1/ G4 800 and it used around 25 GB. No more than 12 tracks were recorded at each song/session, but we did up to 12 versions of some songs/sections of songs on a period of 3 days/8 hours a day with some breaks.
I used an ADATBRIDGE 24 bits with an 02R V2 light piped to PT 24 5.1.1 512MB on a G4 800.

The microphones were ( also budget) AT4050, C3000B´s, C2000B´s, BETA 57, C3000, etc.
The room was bad, an old house with wood floor, parallel walls but no much bass related problems.

I have just finished the edits and now I am mixing with the conductor.Very serious editing was necessary, lots of crossfades between different sessions, but no pitch correction.

This is the fourth Cd I have done for this group but I wished to improve the mixing and mastering.
I would like some advices from friends on here who has plenty experience with small orchestras like these, around 25 musicians.

Two songs had severe leakage from a saxophone, trumpet and a 25 piece choir, but the idea of the project ( from the conductor´s point of view) is to keep things s they are, not over produce things.

Basically we had First and Second violins, violas, cellos, bass, stereo miked piano on 4 songs, a flute/saxophone on another one and a Foxtrot ( yes!!!!! - songs from an old composer) with trumpet, sax and a 25 piece choir on another one.

I do use Q10 and TC MASTER X for some mastering. I know.. it is not a Sonic/Sadie/high end analog pre..stuff but...
what can we do...

Concerning reverbs, I generally do a mix of SPX halls, plates, Lexicon MPX1 plates.
I came very close to the ambience of some nice cds from the great musician PERLMAN but it is not a real room...

Any tips for mixing, efx handling, frequency tailoring ( specially high mids) and also mastering? I do want to keep dynamics but not have a Cd hat you have to tweak all the time the volume button.

Thanks in advance!
Nice thursday!
studiodp@terra.com.br
[img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-End e-Mastering & Music Production
www.aleciocosta.com

http://www.facebook.com/alecio.costa

PT HD2 Accel - 10.3.10 OS 10.6.8 - Mac Pro 1,1 16GB RAM and Mac Pro 2,1 GB
Mastering Gear: Pendulum Audio, Crane Song, Avalon, Great River, Sebatron, Sonnox, Izotope, PSP, TC, Fab Filter.
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Old 08-07-2002, 06:59 PM
tlester tlester is offline
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Default Re: any tips for improving mixing/mastering a small orchestra?

My first, but too late, reccomendation would be to record it better. If you are having that hard of a time mixing it, it means that you probably did a poor job recording it. Why didn't you record it in a concert hall? Surely, these guys perform in concert halls and could book time in one, right?

With a good orchestra, a couple of really good omni directional mics in a good room, straight to dat is all you need. Then dump the two tracks in to Digi to edit and master it.

You should have to worry about bleed with an orchestra. An orchestra is just that. It's a blend of sounds.

-t
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2002, 07:02 PM
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Alécio Costa Alécio Costa is offline
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Default Re: any tips for improving mixing/mastering a small orchestra?

thanks Tlester! The sound is not bad. Not good concert Hall at this side of the place.
Any other tips?
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PT HD2 Accel - 10.3.10 OS 10.6.8 - Mac Pro 1,1 16GB RAM and Mac Pro 2,1 GB
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Old 08-07-2002, 08:32 PM
Zumwalt Zumwalt is offline
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Default Re: any tips for improving mixing/mastering a small orchestra?

try the altiverb on it... might just be the thing!
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2002, 09:11 PM
Alécio Costa's Avatar
Alécio Costa Alécio Costa is offline
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Default Re: any tips for improving mixing/mastering a small orchestra?

I will look for it!! Thanks for your time and tip friend!! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-End e-Mastering & Music Production
www.aleciocosta.com

http://www.facebook.com/alecio.costa

PT HD2 Accel - 10.3.10 OS 10.6.8 - Mac Pro 1,1 16GB RAM and Mac Pro 2,1 GB
Mastering Gear: Pendulum Audio, Crane Song, Avalon, Great River, Sebatron, Sonnox, Izotope, PSP, TC, Fab Filter.
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2002, 07:54 AM
tlester tlester is offline
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Default Re: any tips for improving mixing/mastering a small orchestra?

Try to think about how someone in the audience of a great room would hear it. Positioning the panning like the orchestra would sit. If my memory serves (from director's perspective facing orchestra):

1st violins left center front
2nd/3rd vilins left to far left front
1st violas right center front
2nd viola right
cellos right medium back
Bass right far back
brass back middle w/ french horns and reids a bit closer.
Double reeds middle back left.
Percussion back left.
piano could be placed anywhere depending on how it's featured.

Use your predelay to position from front to back. I.e. more predelay puts them close to the audience, less puts them closer to the back of the stage. If I remember correctly, it's a 1ms/foot (someone correct me if that's wrong).

Whatever you do DON'T try to stereo pan everything (i.e. don't mix violins far left and right). That's not how an orchestra sounds. Put each instrument group where they should be in the sitting arrangement.

Good luck! I hope that helps a little bit more.

-Tom
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  #7  
Old 08-08-2002, 09:50 AM
Alécio Costa's Avatar
Alécio Costa Alécio Costa is offline
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Default Re: any tips for improving mixing/mastering a small orchestra?

thanks TOM!!. I panned very similar to the way they were sat.
In terms of 02R PAN, like this:

1st violin > L9
2nd violin > R9
Viola > L6
Cello > R5
Bass > C ( Yes, it is wrong but we preferred)
Piano > it depends on the song.. solo piano > stereo..

Choir : L5 /R5 (Stereo miked)
thanks [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-End e-Mastering & Music Production
www.aleciocosta.com

http://www.facebook.com/alecio.costa

PT HD2 Accel - 10.3.10 OS 10.6.8 - Mac Pro 1,1 16GB RAM and Mac Pro 2,1 GB
Mastering Gear: Pendulum Audio, Crane Song, Avalon, Great River, Sebatron, Sonnox, Izotope, PSP, TC, Fab Filter.
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