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  #1  
Old 12-19-2018, 12:32 AM
BigBadBill BigBadBill is offline
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Default Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

I am on PT 2018.10, and I am running Metagrid on an iPad (via usb) to send program change data (CC32) to Kontakt while playing my keyboard.

This works fine and PT receives the pgm change data as it should, but for some reason it won't actually record the pgm change data unless I also play something/anything on the keyboard.

Basically what I'd like to do is record a whole pass just playing the keyboard, and then do another (merge) recording on the same region firing off the correct program changes - but PT won't record CC32 separately. If I do it all at the same time, it records it fine.

Is there a setting somewhere for this, or is there something painfully obvious I have overlooked? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2018, 04:40 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

There are at least two options that I can think of off the to of my head:

You say you're doing this in two separate passes. Record the cc32 messages on a separate MIDI track and then merge the two tracks into one. Actually you wouldn't have to merge them into one track - just have the two tracks pointed to the same instance of Kontakt.

Another way is to manually enter the cc32 messages into the MIDI stream driving Kontakt; this can be done using the MIDI event list.

Actually I'm not so sure Kontakt exposes it's program change method to the outside world.

There is a third method requiring use of MIDI merge in PT (consult the manual for that) but I've never used it.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2018, 06:38 AM
BigBadBill BigBadBill is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

Jack, thanks for chiming in. I don't think I explained it properly.

Actually the problem I'm experiencing is that it's not possible to record CC32 on any MIDI/instrument track without also playing notes on the keyboard at the same time.

If I go into record, play a couple of notes on my keyboard and send program change data (CC32) the data gets recorded. If I go into record and not play any notes, but just send CC32, that data is not recorded. See?

Manually entering the data is what I have to resort to as of now, but it's a PITA doing orchestral stuff with lots of layering and keyswitches.


Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
There are at least two options that I can think of off the to of my head:

You say you're doing this in two separate passes. Record the cc32 messages on a separate MIDI track and then merge the two tracks into one. Actually you wouldn't have to merge them into one track - just have the two tracks pointed to the same instance of Kontakt.

Another way is to manually enter the cc32 messages into the MIDI stream driving Kontakt; this can be done using the MIDI event list.

Actually I'm not so sure Kontakt exposes it's program change method to the outside world.

There is a third method requiring use of MIDI merge in PT (consult the manual for that) but I've never used it.
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2018, 08:18 AM
john1192 john1192 is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBill View Post
Jack, thanks for chiming in. I don't think I explained it properly.

Actually the problem I'm experiencing is that it's not possible to record CC32 on any MIDI/instrument track without also playing notes on the keyboard at the same time.

If I go into record, play a couple of notes on my keyboard and send program change data (CC32) the data gets recorded. If I go into record and not play any notes, but just send CC32, that data is not recorded. See?

Manually entering the data is what I have to resort to as of now, but it's a PITA doing orchestral stuff with lots of layering and keyswitches.
thinking out loud for a moment ...

what if you Draw one note on the track that you are going to add the Prog Ch info to .. make this note longer than the song .. BUT make it a note that plays NOTHING !! and assign to the same instrument as mentioned above !!!

now while in midi merge add your Prog Ch in realtime to that track with the One Note on it .. Now Record your track on a 2nd midi track assined to same instrument .. !!

did I Win the NEw CAR !!!!
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2018, 08:37 AM
BigBadBill BigBadBill is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john1192 View Post
thinking out loud for a moment ...

what if you Draw one note on the track that you are going to add the Prog Ch info to .. make this note longer than the song .. BUT make it a note that plays NOTHING !! and assign to the same instrument as mentioned above !!!

now while in midi merge add your Prog Ch in realtime to that track with the One Note on it .. Now Record your track on a 2nd midi track assined to same instrument .. !!

did I Win the NEw CAR !!!!
No that doesn't work. I have to actually physically play on my keyboard at the same time for the CC32 to be recorded. Drives me nuts. All other CC data records just fine on its own.

Is this a bug?
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:41 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBill View Post
Jack, thanks for chiming in. I don't think I explained it properly.

Actually the problem I'm experiencing is that it's not possible to record CC32 on any MIDI/instrument track without also playing notes on the keyboard at the same time.

If I go into record, play a couple of notes on my keyboard and send program change data (CC32) the data gets recorded. If I go into record and not play any notes, but just send CC32, that data is not recorded. See?

Manually entering the data is what I have to resort to as of now, but it's a PITA doing orchestral stuff with lots of layering and keyswitches.
Try this:
So you have to play a note or notes to record the cc32 changes right? Use a separate track to record a note along with the cc32 data. After recording using the MIDI event list delete all the notes and leave the cc32 data intact. Then merge THAT with the MIDI on the track with Kontakt.

But like I said earlier I'm not so sure that Kontakt responds to cc32 program changes; at least it never did for me because I'm not sure Kontakt exposes it's program changes to the outside world. Keyswitches are a different thing.

edit for additinal:
Take a look at these pages from the NI forums:
https://www.native-instruments.com/f...ontakt.215570/

https://www.native-instruments.com/f...nge-cc.190654/

Also this is not a bug in PT.
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Last edited by musicman691; 12-19-2018 at 09:48 AM. Reason: added weblinks from NI pages
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  #7  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:33 AM
BigBadBill BigBadBill is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

Jack - sure that works, and I've been doing that but it is INCREDIBLY cumbersome. I am doing orchestral mockups and having to do it this way is a bit of a workflow killer.

I was hoping it would be as easy as entering other CC data, just pop the track in record (merge mode), enter the data while the track is playing, and viola.

What is the rationale behind not being able to write prog change data separately when all other CC's can be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Try this:
So you have to play a note or notes to record the cc32 changes right? Use a separate track to record a note along with the cc32 data. After recording using the MIDI event list delete all the notes and leave the cc32 data intact. Then merge THAT with the MIDI on the track with Kontakt.

But like I said earlier I'm not so sure that Kontakt responds to cc32 program changes; at least it never did for me because I'm not sure Kontakt exposes it's program changes to the outside world. Keyswitches are a different thing.

edit for additinal:
Take a look at these pages from the NI forums:
https://www.native-instruments.com/f...ontakt.215570/

https://www.native-instruments.com/f...nge-cc.190654/

Also this is not a bug in PT.
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2018, 12:14 PM
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clausiii clausiii is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

hmmm, works here what you want to do.
look at the MIDI input filter if there's something disabled that needs to be recorded -> under Setup/MIDI/
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:24 PM
john1192 john1192 is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

OK, what if you put a small weight on your keyboard so it is always holding down a Note !!! let me edit this and say you might need a small 25 note keybpard dedicated to just this ... not ideal i know .. still thinking
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2018, 10:45 PM
BigBadBill BigBadBill is offline
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Default Re: Why can't I get PT to record program change only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john1192 View Post
OK, what if you put a small weight on your keyboard so it is always holding down a Note !!! let me edit this and say you might need a small 25 note keybpard dedicated to just this ... not ideal i know .. still thinking
Creative but won't work. MIDI registers only key on and key off messages, it can't see that a key is being held down.
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