Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools 12

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-10-2018, 03:12 PM
64GTOBOY's Avatar
64GTOBOY 64GTOBOY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Houston
Posts: 721
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

You could also use playlists
__________________
Dell XPS 8900 i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz 32 Gig Memory:Seagate 2 TB,1TB,4TB,500gb EVO OS Windows 7 Ultimate
PT 2019.6 Native through A&H Qu-32
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-10-2018, 03:36 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 34,863
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

A well-spec'd machine with HD/Native is a joy to track bands on all day here(and with zero latency issues). I guess it bears repeating, but if you can't work with HDN because of latency, there is something wrong or under-spec'd in your setup. Or, you are simply using the wrong tool for the job at hand. My friend that tracks with an analog console(on HDX) actually uses the console channels as hardware inserts on the tracks in PT(wish I could offer more info on that, but I've never worked on his rig)

Back to HDN for a moment, I don't use a console(because I don't need one) but have no problem tracking 5-6 piece bands(complete with full-band punch-ins) while providing 5-6 stereo headphone mixes from inside Pro Tools(my band template is so well-dialed that I rarely make more than 3 tweaks to phones on any given song). I run a 64 buffer and my template session has dozens of plugins in play(none of which report more than 7 samples of latency) so the raw mix sounds really good(players that hear a good mix will play better).

So, HDN may or may not be the right tool to use WITH a console(don't know as I've never tried it), but those that claim HDN sucks because of latency simply don't have their ducks in a row. I went to HDN shortly after PT10 hit and I have been completely happy with that decision(and even happier after working a friend's HDX rig and seeing how it handles plugin latency).
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-10-2018, 04:12 PM
chrismeraz chrismeraz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 328
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64GTOBOY View Post
You could also use playlists
Can you elaborate a bit please?
__________________
Windows 10
Apollo 8
Pro Tools Native
i7 8700K, 32GB RAM
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-10-2018, 04:50 PM
chrismeraz chrismeraz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 328
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
A well-spec'd machine with HD/Native is a joy to track bands on all day here(and with zero latency issues). I guess it bears repeating, but if you can't work with HDN because of latency, there is something wrong or under-spec'd in your setup. Or, you are simply using the wrong tool for the job at hand. My friend that tracks with an analog console(on HDX) actually uses the console channels as hardware inserts on the tracks in PT(wish I could offer more info on that, but I've never worked on his rig)

Back to HDN for a moment, I don't use a console(because I don't need one) but have no problem tracking 5-6 piece bands(complete with full-band punch-ins) while providing 5-6 stereo headphone mixes from inside Pro Tools(my band template is so well-dialed that I rarely make more than 3 tweaks to phones on any given song). I run a 64 buffer and my template session has dozens of plugins in play(none of which report more than 7 samples of latency) so the raw mix sounds really good(players that hear a good mix will play better).

So, HDN may or may not be the right tool to use WITH a console(don't know as I've never tried it), but those that claim HDN sucks because of latency simply don't have their ducks in a row. I went to HDN shortly after PT10 hit and I have been completely happy with that decision(and even happier after working a friend's HDX rig and seeing how it handles plugin latency).
Well I hadn't considered that, so let's look at the numbers. The lowest possible latency for Apollo is 1.1ms, and the lowest possible buffer for PT Native is 64 samples = 0.67ms (all at 96kHz). I need to add those two together if monitoring through PT with Apollo as an interface, right? That only comes to 1.8ms... not so bad!

Now let's talk about the computer. I hear a lot of clicks and pops at 64 samples of buffer, but CPU usage is only at 30%. What is causing the problem? Is it the CPU, or is it difficult to say exactly and I should just upgrade my whole computer?

By the way, I'm working on PT Native, not PTHD Native, in case that makes a difference.
__________________
Windows 10
Apollo 8
Pro Tools Native
i7 8700K, 32GB RAM

Last edited by chrismeraz; 03-11-2018 at 03:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-10-2018, 07:39 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 34,863
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

If you're getting clicks and pops, we need to see a Sandra report on the PC and detail anything hardware that is connected to the Apollo(especially anything with a digital connection)
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:55 AM
chrismeraz chrismeraz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 328
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

I can work at 256 or 512 with no problems. 128 or 64 is not reliable. I have a Midas XL48 on internal clock driving the clock on the Apollo. That's all my digital gear.

I did some experiments running a large session (for me): 12 inputs recording, 12 backing tracks playing back, and 4 headphone mixes. Below are screenshots of the Resource Monitor at 256, 128, and 64 samples of buffer. I can see that the CPU usage is increasing with decreasing buffer, so I guess I should upgrade my CPU if I want to run at 64 samples buffer without any dropouts.

256

128

64
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 256.jpg (67.4 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg 128.jpg (66.3 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg 64.jpg (68.7 KB, 0 views)
__________________
Windows 10
Apollo 8
Pro Tools Native
i7 8700K, 32GB RAM

Last edited by chrismeraz; 03-11-2018 at 10:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-11-2018, 01:49 PM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: U.K.
Posts: 2,198
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

What you want to do, is turn off LLM, and put the hardware buffer as high as you like.

Monitor your live input through the desk, along with the stereo playback from Pro Tools.

On each of your record enabled tracks in PT, insert the stock compressor plugin, with the side chain set to whichever hardware input that particular track is receiving it's source signal.

Set the threshold, and ratio so that the compressor either attenuates, or completely mutes a live signal.

During punch-ins, the pre-recorded material will play back normally, but as soon as the performer starts to play along, it will attenuate/mute the output of that track from pro tools, so that there is no double monitoring / echo - the artist will just hear their live signal, monitored through the desk, and any backing tracks from pro tools that are not being overdubbed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-11-2018, 01:50 PM
Rich Breen Rich Breen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Burbank, CA USA
Posts: 1,640
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismeraz View Post
...Now let's talk about the computer. I hear a lot of clicks and pops at 64 samples of buffer...
Curious what one of these sessions looks like as far as plugs go? I'm not a windows person, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't get 12 record tracks going without issue at 64 sample buffer.
__________________
http://www.richbreen.com

----------------------------------------
MacPro 5,1 Dual Hex, OS 10.12.6, PT 2018 HDX, Avid HD I/Os and Metric Halo ULN8, Avid C24.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:08 PM
chrismeraz chrismeraz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 328
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Breen View Post
Curious what one of these sessions looks like as far as plugs go? I'm not a windows person, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't get 12 record tracks going without issue at 64 sample buffer.
I have only one native plugin (2016 Stereo Room) and four UAD plugins, but of course the UAD plugins shouldn't be putting any stress on the CPU. Maybe a bit surprising, yeah, now that you mention it. I'm using a 3rd-generation i3 processor.

I should probably upgrade. Anyone got $1500 lying around in between the sofa cushions maybe?
__________________
Windows 10
Apollo 8
Pro Tools Native
i7 8700K, 32GB RAM
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:12 PM
chrismeraz chrismeraz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 328
Default Re: Best way to handle Punch In (PT 12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Kolchak View Post
What you want to do, is turn off LLM, and put the hardware buffer as high as you like.

Monitor your live input through the desk, along with the stereo playback from Pro Tools.

On each of your record enabled tracks in PT, insert the stock compressor plugin, with the side chain set to whichever hardware input that particular track is receiving it's source signal.

Set the threshold, and ratio so that the compressor either attenuates, or completely mutes a live signal.

During punch-ins, the pre-recorded material will play back normally, but as soon as the performer starts to play along, it will attenuate/mute the output of that track from pro tools, so that there is no double monitoring / echo - the artist will just hear their live signal, monitored through the desk, and any backing tracks from pro tools that are not being overdubbed.
Thanks Carl, sounds a bit fidgety but it could work. It's probably the best idea so far. You do this on a regular basis?
__________________
Windows 10
Apollo 8
Pro Tools Native
i7 8700K, 32GB RAM
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quick punch.... can't hear track audio until I punch in stainless 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 5 07-31-2017 03:11 AM
Punch In and Punch Out With no numeric pad detroitkruk 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 3 04-06-2010 12:00 PM
Punch-in, Punch out Markers RaySoul 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 9 12-19-2008 07:10 PM
003 Rack Punch In/Punch Out Mystery poorman 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 08-09-2007 07:51 PM
Urgent! Automatic punch-in/punch-out for Mbox 7.0 tymeless 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 8 04-11-2007 05:44 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:56 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com