Latency Clarification with Mbox2 and Pro Tools LE

[jonslaten]

Hello everyone. Hey I've been reading up on Latency lately cause I wanted to know what's happening when I'm recording on my Mbox2 (Pro Tools LE 8.03)
Well I understand the concept of latency and why it happens in LE, but upon further reading, I'm completely confused now. I discovered yesterday that if you command+click on the volume in the mix window it shows, peak, vol and Delay. So I clicked through all of the plugins in my current session and they all show 0 except the Massey L2007 on my Master Fader track.

All the guitar was recorded through a Boss GT-10, Bass direct, vocals direct and the temp drum tracks were taken from Protools drum library for the time being.

So now I have a few things that need to be cleared up:

First off, I'm recording at 48Khz and the buffer at the lowest possible setting, and mixer knob full clockwise. I then copy one of the drum samples from the Pro Tools CD. Zero Latency correct? So far so good.

1. I then begin recording some rhythm GTR through the Gt-10 into the Mbox2 WITHOUT installing any plugins. Now, did I just introduce latency into my session? Will my gtr track be behind the drums now by whatever sample I set the buffer too?

2. So if this is the case, how do I line the gtr track up with the drums? And I then continue recording more gtr, bass and so on. Do the same thing with each track?

3. And lastly, like I mentioned before, add a host of Pro Tools plugins and they all report zero delay. Will all of my recorded tracks be lined up with the original drum track?

In the event I need to line everything up, I read how to do that using the time adjuster plugin and nudging things around. I just want to know what to expect latency wise from the MBox2 and Pro Tools LE in general so I will have the tools to fix whatever is out of wack with my mix. Sometimes reading further about a specific topic leads you into further confusion. Well, hope I was clear guys, that's pretty much all I want to know.

[browniespeaks]

some pro tools plug ins misreport latency, so trust what you see in the waveform veiw more than the number at the bottom of the track. The massey plug has look ahead thats why its causing you that delay. Putting it on your master fader means everything you hear while tracking that rythm gtr is delayed by that mount. What you are recording in will by recorded in real time. but if you wer to listen to it while you were playing you would hear your playing after your actual playing happend. Make your massey plug inactive while you are tracking. turn your mix knob to the center. mute the track you are recording then record. You will be tracking without delay. Their is a good video around here on the ping method for delay compensation using short and long time adjuster. but i dont remember ware it is maybe somone will help you find that.

[daeron80]

Maybe you didn't mean this, but it sounds like you're recording while the Massey limiter is on the mix bus. Can't do that. Huge latency. No plugs on the master while tracking, or you're not hearing what you need to, anyway.

There's another source of recording latency, and that's the Mbox itself. But as long as your hardware buffer is set below 128, you won't need to compensate for that. If it sounds good, don't move it. That's always the rule, regardless of system latency. If it sounds late, move it earlier; if not, leave it. If it's ever too early, the talent just need more practice.

[jonslaten]

I have OCD Big time with this kinda stuff and how it's gotta be "perfect." I once spent about a hundred hours automating every freakin variable on one song of mine. My wife was about ready to divorce me cause I couldn't pull myself away. Yeah, it's tough dealing with myself sometimes. Anyway, so when I learned about this latency thing, I had a small heart attack. I was thinking about EVERYTHING I have done was a waste. Well not really, but you know what I mean.

So back to what I wanted to reply on. The massey plugin was inserted on the master, but I bypassed or made it inactive. I use a template that I made for starting new sessions and when I load up PT, all plugins are inactive. But my question was just about the general aspect of latency and maybe somehow it correlates directly to the buffer settings you choose. Thanks for the replies and helping me out. I didn't know about muting the track when overdubbing, that's definitely a cool thing to know for sure. And that makes sense about looking at your waveforms. Maybe being the only true way to know for sure. What's the point in having a feature like "DLY,"when it doesn't report correctly? These are all AVID/Digi plugins that I am using, and it's not like they were building rocket ships when they wrote the code for these things. It baffles me sometimes. Anyway, thanks again for the info and help. I appreciate the responses.

[browniespeaks]

well most of the avid plugs will report correctly. but some made by others wont. bypass doesnt get rid of the delay a plugin causes making the plug inactive does.

[daeron80]

I know the OCD-wifey-losing-patience deal.

[Edit] @browniespeaks - jinx.

Originally Posted by jonslaten

The massey plugin was inserted on the master, but I bypassed or made it inactive.

Must be inactive. Bypassed it will still have its normal latency.

Originally Posted by jonslaten

And that makes sense about looking at your waveforms.

Might help in some situations but the true test is listening, not looking. Some things shouldn't be lined up "perfectly". If it sounds right but looks wrong, it's right.

Originally Posted by jonslaten

What's the point in having a feature like "DLY,"when it doesn't report correctly?

I think all DigiAvid plugs report correctly. Somebody might correct me on that but I don't know of any. A few 3rd party plugs misreport. Bugs. What can you do? Test test test.

[AdamPT8]

You wouldn't want to record anything with the mix knob in the centre, you will want it fully to the right otherwise you will deffinetely be introducing latency into the recording session as you would effectively be hearing yourself twice. you will hear yourself bypassing pro tools and coming straight out the speakers and you will also hear yourself going through pro tools and out the speakers, so when recording you want the mix knob all the way to the right.

To be honest, I don't even see the need for a mix knob anyway.

[AdamPT8]

Another tip which doesn't relate to latency but my help you in your recording sessions is using an aux track for monitoring in LE.

If you are recording drums and you have the drummer playing with the bassist for timing, but not recording the bass then input the bass through an aux track instead of an audio track because otherwise you won't be able to hear the bass when recording the drums unless you are recording the bass as well, one of those annoying niggly bits of LE. The same applies if you want to use a talkback mic to speak to the artists, input it through an aux, this will allow you to hear what you want to monitor without having to record it.

[Dism]

Originally Posted by AdamPT8

You wouldn't want to record anything with the mix knob in the centre, you will want it fully to the right otherwise you will deffinetely be introducing latency into the recording session as you would effectively be hearing yourself twice. you will hear yourself bypassing pro tools and coming straight out the speakers and you will also hear yourself going through pro tools and out the speakers, so when recording you want the mix knob all the way to the right.

To be honest, I don't even see the need for a mix knob anyway.

If you want to hear playback while you're recording... the mix knob is useful.

You will get a bit of phasing, but it never bothered me, and it's not as though you are tracking the latency... you're just hearing it.

[AdamPT8]

Originally Posted by Dism

If you want to hear playback while you're recording... the mix knob is useful.

You will get a bit of phasing, but it never bothered me, and it's not as though you are tracking the latency... you're just hearing it.

but you can obviously hear playback whilst your recording anyway...