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  #1  
Old 03-23-2011, 12:40 AM
eric22rr eric22rr is offline
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Default drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

I know the basics of drum miking, so I don't need links to the basic techniques (if you have any good resources, I'd love to see, anyway!)

I need some ideas for drum miking techniques for my drummer's setup:

http://gallery.me.com/eric.rosenwald#100141/IMG_1077

The room is TERRIBLE, acoustically. Thankfully, she's an unbelievably incredible drummer, so EQ issues aren't a big deal in the long-run. It's essentially a rectangle -- about 30' by 20', without any real acoustic treatment. The closest thing to treatment we have is gear stacked into the corners of the room. Ha.

As far as mics, I have:

-- M-Audio Luna
-- M-Audio Solaris (same as Luna, except it has omni/cardioid/supercardioid / -10dB pad)
-- SM-57
-- SM-58

I'm using a Digi 002 so I only have 4 inputs... hence... my four best mics.

I don't have a dedicated kick mic, which definitely sucks... but with some creative mixing, I was able to get the 58 to sound good for the kick drum on one recording in particular. I only chose it because I thought it would be the most durable for an SPL as intense as the one coming from the kick. I know I definitely don't want to use one of the more delicate condensers on the kick.

Any ideas of which mics I should use in what positions? Any ideas of where they should be placed? Like I said, I know the basic principles, and I know that I need to follow my ears... But still, I thought I could get some good input here, based on the photo, the realities that come with having a boxy room, and the mics I have.

Thanks!

Eric
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  #2  
Old 03-23-2011, 08:08 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is online now
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

My 2 cents based on the photo(and I like that the kit is setup at an angle to the room walls). Place the M-Audio mics(set the Solaris to Cardioid and no pad so it matches the Luna) about 6 feet back, chest high from the front "corners" of the kit. Put the 57 close in on the snare(maybe move it back a bit to get more hat if you need it) and put the 58 just into the hole on the bass drum. Then, after recording, consider using a drum replacement plugin(like Drumagog, TL Drum Rehab or Steven Slate's plugin) and blending in a good kick drum sample. Having said that, you have some budget options here. Its easy to add mic pre's to the 002 and as cheap as a $200 Behringer ADA8000(8 channels on lightpipe). But a well tuned and well played kit might work just as described(experimentation is the best teaching tool you can have). Dive in
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  #3  
Old 04-02-2011, 11:53 AM
DaneK DaneK is offline
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

I would suggest a simple Glyn John's method.

57 on the snare up tight
58 on the kick
Solaris set to figure 8 between the floor and rack tom with the kick off axis to reduce leakage
Luna sitting up above the high rack and crash

Be sure to phase align as well. You're going to get lots of leakage with this method and if you want your drums to stay loud and punchy you want to make sure they're not phasing eachother out.

Work in mono and start with the luna and the 58 up while your drummer is hitting the kick. You'll have to sweep one of them around (preferably the 58) then find the punchiest spot (if its out of phase you can hear the low end disappear) open up an 1 band EQ and just keep hitting the phase flop button to give you a hand. If it sounds good out of phase keep it like that and just audiosuite it with the invert. then go to the 57, do the same thing with both the 58 and Luna still up but hitting the snare then the Solaris and repeat the same thing. It should work.

It's going to be a live sounding drum sound but I've been using this technique a lot more than the traditional close mic technique a lot more recently.

Hope that helps!
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  #4  
Old 04-04-2011, 05:02 PM
eric22rr eric22rr is offline
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneK View Post
I would suggest a simple Glyn John's method.

57 on the snare up tight
58 on the kick
Solaris set to figure 8 between the floor and rack tom with the kick off axis to reduce leakage
Luna sitting up above the high rack and crash

Be sure to phase align as well. You're going to get lots of leakage with this method and if you want your drums to stay loud and punchy you want to make sure they're not phasing eachother out.

Work in mono and start with the luna and the 58 up while your drummer is hitting the kick. You'll have to sweep one of them around (preferably the 58) then find the punchiest spot (if its out of phase you can hear the low end disappear) open up an 1 band EQ and just keep hitting the phase flop button to give you a hand. If it sounds good out of phase keep it like that and just audiosuite it with the invert. then go to the 57, do the same thing with both the 58 and Luna still up but hitting the snare then the Solaris and repeat the same thing. It should work.

It's going to be a live sounding drum sound but I've been using this technique a lot more than the traditional close mic technique a lot more recently.

Hope that helps!
Thank you for the advice. I'm expecting that this will work much better than my previous method. The problem that it has is that there is so much bleed between mics... If I set an EQ that makes the toms sound good on one, those settings will make the snare, for instance, sound bad. Should I use gates on any of the tracks? I'm setting things up right now. Should I turn on the high-pass filter switch (I believe it works at 100Hz) on the Solaris, or would that cut out too much low end on the toms? Also, I have the Solaris between the floor and mid toms, almost an inch away from the sides of each, off-axis from the kick, like you said. My drummer needs them fairly close. Is this too close? I'm assuming it will be close-enough to need to turn on the -10dB pad.
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  #5  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:56 PM
DaneK DaneK is offline
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric22rr View Post
Thank you for the advice. I'm expecting that this will work much better than my previous method. The problem that it has is that there is so much bleed between mics... If I set an EQ that makes the toms sound good on one, those settings will make the snare, for instance, sound bad. Should I use gates on any of the tracks? I'm setting things up right now. Should I turn on the high-pass filter switch (I believe it works at 100Hz) on the Solaris, or would that cut out too much low end on the toms? Also, I have the Solaris between the floor and mid toms, almost an inch away from the sides of each, off-axis from the kick, like you said. My drummer needs them fairly close. Is this too close? I'm assuming it will be close-enough to need to turn on the -10dB pad.
Bleed is okay, and is inevitable with drums, but as long as you phase align everything like I said earlier then all your mics will all be working together and your drums will sound nice and full and punchy!

Should your drummer be less than consistent and you end up having to do some editing I would consider using gates then because when you start shifting things it will begin to go out of phase so a gate may help with that, De-essing will as well because most of the bleed generally comes from the cymbals since they ring out longer.

No need for the HPF, unless your walls are thin and large trucks go by your house, it won't really help with much other than that.

When it comes to the EQ issues, since there is so much bleed (again, not a bad thing if mics are in phase) its impossible to EQ for just one specific drum. Just use your ears, whatever sounds good then just go with it. If you find you lose your sweet snare sound then use a gate and side chain some white noise into it everytime the snare is hit. Also keep in mind, the snare's "crack" likes to live around the 4kHz area so try not to cut too much out of the tom there.

In terms of placement between floor and tom, again, use your ears, if the levels are too hot then use the pad, as long as your drummer doesn't hit it while playing and it sounds good with all the other mics mixed in then leave it where it is, if not, move it around slightly in that location

Good Luck!
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  #6  
Old 04-11-2011, 12:26 AM
Darney Darney is offline
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneK View Post
I would suggest a simple Glyn John's method.

57 on the snare up tight
58 on the kick
Solaris set to figure 8 between the floor and rack tom with the kick off axis to reduce leakage
Luna sitting up above the high rack and crash

Be sure to phase align as well. You're going to get lots of leakage with this method and if you want your drums to stay loud and punchy you want to make sure they're not phasing eachother out.

Work in mono and start with the luna and the 58 up while your drummer is hitting the kick.
+1 - this is a good suggestion.

Another option that works really well is:

Solaris directly above the snare drum, about 3 1/2 feet, Luna behind the drummer's right shoulder, pointing at the snare (use a piece of string to measure so the distance from the mic to the snare is the same for both the solaris and luna), use the 58 or 57 on the kick (whichever gives you the sound you want).
That's it, three mics. I use this once in a while for jazz kits, but I typically use omnis for the O/H mics. But it'll still work with cardioid.
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2011, 10:32 AM
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jeam25 jeam25 is offline
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

I have a drum in my studio and after all this years i can tell you that
80% of the time the problem is tuning ,heads and the drum
itself.
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2011, 11:24 AM
guitar486 guitar486 is offline
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeam25 View Post
I have a drum in my studio and after all this years i can tell you that
80% of the time the problem is tuning ,heads and the drum
itself.
Yes. Also I would agree with what pretty much everyone else said here and to add on to all that, You might consider rearranging the kit within the room. Face the drums towards the long side of the room and keep them close to the back wall. If you can drape a heavy moving blanket behind the drum set covering as much of the back wall as possible that will help your acoustics a little bit. Good luck and just experiment and have fun!
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  #9  
Old 05-01-2011, 02:28 AM
eric22rr eric22rr is offline
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeam25 View Post
I have a drum in my studio and after all this years i can tell you that
80% of the time the problem is tuning ,heads and the drum
itself.
cool. We're going to try to tune her drums to the root notes of our guitars' tuning: C G C.

we moved from the 58 to a shure beta... unbelievable difference!

also... one more thing... the quality of the drummer. ha. obvious, but the usual axiom is so true.... a good player will make any instrument/recording situation/ etc. sound good.

the solaris set to figure 8 wedged in tight between the mid and floor toms is amazing. it sounds great!
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  #10  
Old 05-01-2011, 04:13 PM
ericsvizeny ericsvizeny is offline
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Default Re: drum miking ideas for >this< kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeam25 View Post
I have a drum in my studio and after all this years i can tell you that
80% of the time the problem is tuning ,heads and the drum
itself.
I agree 100%

Eric
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