Pro Tools 10 and Eleven Rack

[Dism]

Originally Posted by Benoni

maybe I shouldn't have said "free", instead I should have said PT10 HD is included.

Im looking at HD|Native not the new HDX.

an HD| Native system with an Omni I/O - I can get for around $4000, and PT10 HD is included

Yeah, right now HD|N is probably the most attractive offer from Avid.

With Disk Cache, 16k ADC, and 256 voices... it's a lot more interesting for sure.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Benoni

maybe I shouldn't have said "free", instead I should have said PT10 HD is included.

Im looking at HD|Native not the new HDX.

an HD| Native system with an Omni I/O - I can get for around $4000, and PT10 HD is included

And want to guess how much more than $1,000 it will cost you to upgrade to Pro Tools 11 when that comes around. HD Native always looked very nice to me but these HD software upgrade prices are a bitter pill to swallow for lower end HD systems and will keep me from going there.

Darryl

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

And want to guess how much more than $1,000 it will cost you to upgrade to Pro Tools 11 when that comes around. HD Native always looked very nice to me but these HD software upgrade prices are a bitter pill to swallow for lower end HD systems and will keep me from going there.

Darryl

No doubt that $999 is a hard pill to swallow to upgrade from PT9 HD to PT 10 HD, which is why im glad i didnt bite on HD|N when I had the chance. I still want to see what prices do over the next few months, and see what happens when the new HDX cards start shipping.

But if you are using Pro Tools to make money, HD|Native adds alot of features to help get things done faster. And with more tracks, io, and features, you can get more jobs.

Im hoping the PT10 price is a one time thing, and things will settle once PT11 comes out.

[JayNocturn]

I doubt it.

With the RAM features for DSP users, this update is more about HD.

There is a very big chance that the next update will be 64 BIT and thus the benefits will be more for non DSP users.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Benoni

No doubt that $999 is a hard pill to swallow to upgrade from PT9 HD to PT 10 HD, which is why im glad i didnt bite on HD|N when I had the chance. I still want to see what prices do over the next few months, and see what happens when the new HDX cards start shipping.

But if you are using Pro Tools to make money, HD|Native adds alot of features to help get things done faster. And with more tracks, io, and features, you can get more jobs.

Im hoping the PT10 price is a one time thing, and things will settle once PT11 comes out.

I won't bet on it. I could expect Avid folks thinking the 64 bit release upgrade should cost even more. That is unless poor sales results and bad customer feelings from this upgrade have an effect, we'll have to see. It just seems a tone-deaf software upgrade pricing especially given this is a funky (but needed) transition release. If it was $1k for the final long awaited 64 bit release I might have been able to get my head around it but it's not. Since its mostly a higher-end post related release many music folks can just sit it out anyhow but I worry this does not bode well for Pro Tools 11 upgrade pricing and as a low-end user the software update prices have scared me off HD Native.

It is a pity because in many other ways Avid is doing great things with Pro Tools, cranking this complex ecosystem forward. I just think they have just shot themselves in the foot with pricing and all the bad feelings generated. This is a company with only a ~$280M market cap and ~$40M cash on hand and has been losing money quarter to quarter. So when your back is against the wall like this I can understand why software upgrade pricing gets pushed up. We'll have to see but I suspect Avid may find the price elasticity curve stiffer than expected here. The next few quarters of financial results will be interesting, especially given how many legacy customers/upgrade candidates are out there. We'll just have to see...

Darryl

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by JayNocturn

I doubt it.

With the RAM features for DSP users, this update is more about HD.

There is a very big chance that the next update will be 64 BIT and thus the benefits will be more for non DSP users.

To be clear there are no "RAM features for DSP" users. There is a RAM disk feature for any HD or production toolkit user. And that is all about disk I/O and has nothing to do with DSPs or plugins and or memory usage associated with them.

Darryl

[JayNocturn]

HD systems are (DSP and HD native systems), so there are RAM features for HD users.

These features are not only about I/O they are also about playback. I would LOVE this feature on Pro Tools 10.

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I won't bet on it. I could expect Avid folks thinking the 64 bit release upgrade should cost even more. That is unless poor sales results and bad customer feelings from this upgrade have an effect, we'll have to see. It just seems a tone-deaf software upgrade pricing especially given this is a funky (but needed) transition release. If it was $1k for the final long awaited 64 bit release I might have been able to get my head around it but it's not. Since its mostly a higher-end post related release many music folks can just sit it out anyhow but I worry this does not bode well for Pro Tools 11 upgrade pricing and as a low-end user the software update prices have scared me off HD Native.

It is a pity because in many other ways Avid is doing great things with Pro Tools, cranking this complex ecosystem forward. I just think they have just shot themselves in the foot with pricing and all the bad feelings they have just generated. This is a company with only a ~$280M market cap and ~<$40M cash on hand and has been bleeding quarter to quarter. I can see how with their back to the wall like that they may think they need to crank pricing but I suspect they have grabbed hold of a stiffer price-elasticity curve than they expected, maybe spent too long out talking to larger post users. We'll see... I could be wrong.

Now where is my guitar and Pro Tools...

Darryl

Yes it could be that they continue this trend of more expensive upgrades before they finally reach an equilibrium.

$299, $399, $999 ect... could be the new normal when before $150 was the normal for LE upgrades.

I am just hoping that it is not.

Avid may be wanting to cast off some of the lower end users and make Pro Tools a product that costs a premium to use, of course that makes no sense with the Mbox line of products, but on the other hand do they really think someone who buys an Mbox Mini will jump at a $300 or $500 software upgrade. I am just confused at the price points.

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by JayNocturn

HD systems are (DSP and HD native systems), so there are RAM features for HD users.

These features are not only about I/O they are also about playback. I would LOVE this feature on Pro Tools 10.

I believe you get that if you add the CPTK to PT10.

http://www.avid.com/US/products/Comp...uction-Toolkit

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by JayNocturn

HD systems are (DSP and HD native systems), so there are RAM features for HD users.

These features are not only about I/O they are also about playback. I would LOVE this feature on Pro Tools 10.

I am not sure most people can follow your reply.

What exact feature(s) are you talking about? RAM disk is all about disk I/O which obviously affects playback performance. Features have names or descriptions and to avoid confusing people (e.g. implying there is a DSP specific memory related feature)... what exact feature are you talking about?

Darryl