With LexiVerb Not Making It, What Reverb Rules The World In HD?

[InSights7]

<<If you want to talk about the DRE-777 there is a place for that... another thread. I don't mean to be rude, but come on. Let us see what Reverb the majorlity of us are turning to now that we are in this "new platform." Responses are greatly appreciated. This thread is for HD users to interact about plug-in reverbs. Thanks!!!>>
__________________________________________________
Soul:

The title of this thread does not say "Plugin Reverbs". IT IS TTITLED, "With LexiVerb Not Making It, What Reverb Rules The World In HD?" In my opinion the Sony DRE-S777 does RULE the world in HD.

I am an HD3, (3) 192 I/O, (1) Digital 192 I/O owner/user. I have owned every piece of hardware/software Digidesign has sold (except Control 24 and 001) and have experienced every upgrade since ProTools 1.

You will experience what it is like when an upgrade isn't supported by one or many of the third party plugin suppliers, and you try to bring up a mix from one or two or even three upgrades back. (i.e. Spatializer, NuVerb, RealVerb, TC Works, Lexiverb etc...) The hardware couterparts are always available to interface and use, no matter what upgrade has occured. I own several hardware reverbs because I had to purchase them to tweak old mixes months or years after the original session was recorded and mixed. YMMV

I wonder if some of the hardware reverb companies develop and sell plugins, so they can not support them down the road, after an upgrade, and force the end user to buy their hardware boxes at a later date?

I feel fairly safe using ReverbOne, as it is developed, manufactered and supported directly by Digidesign. It probably won't be going away any time soon.

[rtcstudio]

On the topic of Hardware verses Plugins.

An engineer friend of mine at another studio was thinking of selling his TC M5000. Now, of course it does other things besides reverb, but he was curious.

Since the TC Megareverb Plugin has some of the same algorithms, he got up the same patch on both the plugin and the box. Then he ran a snare through it, called in a bunch of folks and no one could tell the difference between the two on this single reverb patch.

Now then, do I think TC is going to release a plugin version of the new TC6000? Of course not. BUT I do believe that all the hardware companies, Lexicon included COULD release a plugin that had SELECTED algorithms of their big boxes that would sound pretty identical to the box. I mean, they are both digital reverbs. The plugin is just limited by the HD chips.

Back to topic, I'm still new at ReverbOne, but it is sounding pretty darn good to me. Seems like the informal tally is

ReverbOne
Altiverb

Perhaps not in that order.

[PhilS]

I agree that Reverb one is likely the best overall choice in HD - but is anyone out there aware that the plug in does not operate above 48k?
It will operate in sessions of higher sample rates but it downsamples to 48k and then upsamples again to accomplish this.
Remember, Reverb One uses a whole mix chip @ 48k, and the HD chip are only 20% faster. If you do the math you will see that it is not currently possible to truly run Reverb One @ higher sample rates.
Digi is not able @ this time to spread a plug in across multiple chips.
Lastly, Digi should really let the customers know when something like that is going on with a plug in.

[Soul For Sale]

Phils, This is the exact reason I think we need to discuss Reverbs(Plug ins) for HD. First off, I am portable now with a Mix Plus and I want them to both have the same Plug ins so I am not missing anything when I flip-flop. I need to check Altiverb. ReverbOne is good. It doesn't fill the hole in my soul when it comes to a Reverb plug in to rely on. As for the SDR 777... It is not part of the end goal... A reverb that comes up with the session in Mix and HD. That is what I want. SDR-777 is also old technology and very enpensive for how old it is. I rather a new plug in at 1/10 the price. SOMEONE MAKE A GREAT REVERB PLUG IN!! PLEASE!!!!! WE NEED IT!!! HD and Mix backwards compatable ofcourse.

[Jsalam112]

Soul 4 Sale. Aren't you "Mr. Analog". What reverbs are you using with your MX-80?????? Perhaps one of your reverb units has AES/EBU which would allow you to use your hardware reverb as a dedicated plug in Pro Tools.

I share everyone's frustration when it comes to the reverb situation in HD as well. Lexiverb and TC Megareverb were not only my top choices but also the choices of discerning clients. Many people are very familiar and therefore very comfortable with the Lexicon sound.

Reverb One is new and I am just getting used to it. So far I like Lexiverb better.
Trueverb and Renn Reverb are usable.
I have yet to try Real Verb.

Altiverb seems conceptually close to the Sony room simulator. I found the Sony very expensive, very slow and fairly limiting with ability to manipulate parameters. I have not tried Altiverb yet. Being a plug I'm guessing it's faster than the Sony when loading "patches" and it certainly is cheaper. Seems limited like the Sony. I'm not sure if Altiverb alone will solve all of my reverb needs.

In the meantime I am hooking up my Lexicon 300 via AES/EBU to my interface and using it in sessions that are 44.1 or 48K.
I'm also giving Reverb One a chance and hoping that Lexiverb ports over to HD.

[Jules]

OK how about generating a list here of HARDWARE reverb units that DO run at 96k and CAN be accessed via 96k AES to run in and out of the PTHD mixer....

TC 6000?
Lex 960?
Eventide Orvile & Eclipse ?

What else?

Quantec yard stick?
Kurzweil ?
Sony s777

Any of them 96k?

I am a Mix + user running

TC M3000 (AES)
Eventide DSP 4000 (AES)
AMS RMX 16 (analog i/o)

For reverbs at the moment.

TC upgraded the Finalizer to 96k it would be much appreciated if they did the M3000 too!!! I hold out little hope for the DSP4000 however..

Interesting topic.

I feel it ON topic to know the FULL list of AES i/o hardware 96k alternatives, as many folks will use a mixture of hardware as well as plug ins...

[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Lee Blaske]

The Eventide Orville runs at 96k, but you can't run all the algorithms at that sample rate.

Keep in mind that it's not the end of the world if you have to do a D to A to feed the input of a high quality 44.1/48k processor (the converters in the 192 are rumored to be pretty decent [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ). You can use live sample rate conversion on the way back. Heck, there are people out there who incorporate lots of additional AD and DA into their production method, even to the extent of using an external analog mix bus with PT (if you can believe that!).

BTW, I think we've pretty much explored the verb plug-ins available within PT. There are some decent ones, but the selection is not endless. If a vote were taken, I think Reverb One would win hands down (for an actual piece of TDM software). It looks like Altiverb is going to be a nice addition on the HTDM/RTAS side of things, though. Those with the Waves Gold bundle have Renaissance Reverb which is pretty decent, and TrueVerb (very interesting interface, but lackluster algorithms). It looks as if TCTools Megaverb will also be available for HD, and most people who have been on the upgrade path already have that. Some people still swear by the nonlinear algorithm in dVerb.

If you're using your HD system with Logic and ESB, you also open up the possibility of using a lot of native options. I haven't explored this yet, but outside of Altiverb, I don't know if there's anything really outstanding out there.

Lee Blaske

[studiojimi]

Not to BROWN NOSE. but...it is OK to give Digi credit for a damn good reverb in
REVERB ONE.
if the plug factory people don't want to rise to the occasion then Digi can go to work on that when they get finished collecting all our HD BETA uprade development tuition fees.--
and class is in session.

with the law supply and demand in effect- you'd think some new abitious plug head would emerge with some killer deals
i miss my PCM 70's tiled room
so i also use some tweaked REN Verb plug
for small drum rooms and sometime just on the hi hat to attempt to trick the listener into believing that the (sometimes programmed) drums are in the bathroom. i hired a really well known engineer whose ears i trust to do a few presets. don't hear much about swapping custom presets in here do we?

PS no bathroom flames there is enough hot air in here at times to blow up a biological weapons lab.

[Chap]

Up till Verb One , the tails were out of tune and could often lend an unpleasing artifct to tracks. That said, I'm currently using:
tc system 6000 (loaded) and stunning
lexi 90 and 80 (both do what they do fine)
H3000 for chorus and flange
and a bunch of 'cheesy outboard verbs.

TDM - the Verb One sounds pretty convincing
and the WAVES stuff is there for backup or specific fx. Of course we're not supposed to use verb at all anymore. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Nick Batzdorf]

Is it really important for a reverb to run at 96 or 192?, he asks rhetorically, taking the baton from Lee Blaske.

Or to put it more bluntly: come on, we all really need to get a life!

I would also submit to the jury that Lexiverb is nice but by no means a 480, 300, PCM70, PCM90, NuVerb...-caliber plug-in. It's more on the level of their budget units, even though it has better I/O.