OK, so here's a serious question for Avid regarding "openness"...

[TieDyedDevil]

Ah, the exchange between richpjr and Deny jogged my memory:

Max Gutnik, is it really necessary to install the PACE anti-piracy kit when installing only the Eleven Rack drivers?

I can sympathize with Avid's desire to protect ProTools, but a USB driver is useless without the hardware. Installing PACE to protect the driver (when ProTools is not installed) seems unnecessary.

[Tony-N]

First of all, thank you very much Max for join the discussion, the silence from Avid has made us all worry a bit, but now we know why and things are starting to feel really good about the 11R again.

My List:

1. Standalone Editor
2. User IR's
3. A new expansion pack with some nice surprises

[richpjr]

Originally Posted by Deny

That's too bad, I'm guessing you went through the driver reinstallation and disk utilities repair permissions thing?

Yeah, tried all that.

[jsmineer]

1. Stand alone editor.
2. Reverb and delay spillover when changing presets.
3. Assigning more fx to FX1 and FX2.
4. Clean boost for solos. I find the distortion pedals don't boost the volume much when boosting an overdriven amp. Just seems to distort and compress more.

[Deny]

Originally Posted by jsmineer

1. Stand alone editor.
2. Reverb and delay spillover when changing presets.
3. Assigning more fx to FX1 and FX2.
4. Clean boost for solos. I find the distortion pedals don't boost the volume much when boosting an overdriven amp. Just seems to distort and compress more.

I can understand 1, 2 and 3, but but as for #4 why not use a graphic EQ after the amp section for a solo boost? All it takes is leave everything flat and crank up the level.

[Craig F]

when the free standing editor comes along, port it to i and Android devices

[dream5695]

To Max Gutnik
Sr. Director, Audio Product Management
Avid www.avid.com

I have Pro Tools 9 and I want the Eleven Rack, not the plug in version, how can I buy it without the Pro Tools - I'm sure it should be much cheaper considering the price of Pro Tools 9. You don't offer it without Pro Tools, can I buy it without having to buy Pro Tools again??

Avid’s reply:

Since we are only one reseller of Avid products, we can only tell you that if is not on the webstore, we can not sell it unfortunately, but you can contact your local Avid reseller in regards to this.
http://www.avid.com/US/findreseller

I contacted DV247 UK and they tell me:

Thanks for your email. Avid include it as a freebie, they’re not shipping Eleven boxes without it.

To which I replied:

Well if I had only known that, I could have saved myself hundreds of pounds....sorry but I think the way Avid treat their loyal customers is apalling, I can't even get a PT 10 update because I upgraded to 9 too late!!! It just isn't fair. Mike Jennings

They then replied:
Unfortunately we’re not in any position to dictate what software is or isn’t included in within Avid’s hardware. We’re a reseller for Avid, we don’t have control over what they include in the box or at what point their grace-period upgrades start and end.
So I contacted Arvato Systems again, the authorized online reseller for Avid and said:
Well, I gotta tell you this is crazy - you have a product that someone wants but you can't sell it without an accompanying product which the customer already has, which was also purchased from you!! That's really bizzare....you gotta change your policy, it's madness....sorry..Mike
They replied:

Unfortunately, the product you are interested in is currently not available in our online store.
. We have forwarded your message to Avid.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Thank you for your interest in Avid.

To which I replied:

Sorry Maggie...that just doesn't cut it...you make this product and you make Pro Tools...are you saying you don't have this in stock but if you did you would sell it cheaper without Pro Tools 9?

The way you (Avid) treat your customers is so bad...you'd think being a dedicated user of your products you would get some kind of preferential treatment....how the hell am I supposed to get one of these Eleven Racks, without buying Pro Tools again....it's sheer madness, but what do you care....obviously nothing otherwise you'd make it available to licensed users like myself.....so all the thousands of PT users can't buy this without getting stuck with another copy of PT 9!!!! How insane is this sounding to you???? It's about time you did something for those who use your products faithfully. You are sorry to hear that I am experiencing difficulties.....who are you, if you are not Avid........
It was then I found out I wasn’t actually communicating with Avid at all......

Thank you for your email.
We are Arvato Systems, an authorized online reseller that has been selected to sell products on Avid's behalf. Though this is the official Avid "company store," you become a customer of Arvato Systems upon ordering a product.
Even though we understand your point, we do not sell Eleven Rack without Pro Tools.
If you want to express your opinion, our recommendation is to visit Avid's forums at:
http://duc.avid.com/
Thank you for your interest in Avid.

Hence why I am here. I sent my grievances to the Board of Directors at:
http://ir.avid.com/contactBoard.cfm
Am I the only one who thinks this kind of marketing is absurd? I know I can get the Eleven Rack Plug-in but is someone going to tell me this will provide me with the same quality of sounds as the Hardware version.....so my little 192 audio card is up to the same spec as the Eleven Rack!!! Somehow, I don’t think so.

Or am I completely missing the plot here and there is a way to purchase the Eleven Rack without getting another copy of Pro Tools 9?.....

[Jay_uk]

I can't even get a PT 10 update because I upgraded to 9 too late!!!
----------------

Buy the 11r that comes with PT9 and then you will get a free upgrade to PT10. Or just get 11r with PT10.
Then you can sell your,e current PT9 to get some of the cash back.
Dealing with manufacturers is not fair sometimes. Just gotta suck it up, or go somewhere else.

[Max Gutnik]

Thanks for the post, Dream.

Eleven Rack would have the same price with or without Pro Tools software included. Similar to what we just rolled out with Mbox and Pro Tools Express, we are including Pro Tools 10 with Eleven Rack at no extra charge.

[nst7]

As the other guys mentioned, the 11R that comes with PT9 gives you a free upgrade to 10.

You would normally pay at least $299 for the upgrade anyway. If you subtract that price, that puts the actual hardware at $699, equal to similar products like the POD HD Pro.

The whole point being, if you wanted to upgrade to 10, and you wanted the 11R also, it would be the same price either way.