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  #591  
Old 05-29-2017, 08:29 AM
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lesbrunn lesbrunn is offline
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by treason View Post
I do use MIDI in some sessions, so yes I punted on 12.6 and 12.7.1 due to MIDI issues.

I've documented this before, however for context - my sessions are large - typically around 350 voices and span two physical CPUs via VEP6. I mix & master in the same session, with the second CPU handling the majority of the mastering processing. The second CPU runs VEP 6 (not Pro Tools) and has a compliment of DMG Audio, Nugen, brainworx and kazrog plugs. The current project has me focussed on mix/master of LIVE material for a 2017 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductee.

For me 12.6.1 is solid for two key reasons;
  • MIDI is solid for me. That doesn't mean MIDI is great in PT, it's rudimentary and I use it when writing in a very basic manner. I still use Opcode's Studio Vision for more adventurous MIDI and import completed SV MIDI into Pro Tools when writing. I also use it for basic sweetening (i.e. augment LIVE Taurus Pedal tracks with HW moogs).
  • Lack of -917x errors, more efficient CPU usage and lack of crashes. For me - I haven't had any crashes in months. It is absolutely rock solid for editing, mixing and mastering applications as I outlined above.
Again - 12.7.x used more CPU to accomplish the same tasks (same session used more Native CPU processing), hence my professed love for 12.6.1 on macOS 10.11.6.

ymmv

I'd love 12.8 to focus on a couple key issues:
  • MIDI - PT MIDI has always been rudimentary at best. It would be nice to have it rock solid, and improve it's complement of functionality.
  • CPU Efficiency - 12.7x was a leap backwards in terms of CPU demand - regardless of whether or not VIs were incorporated into sessions. With Mac Pros long in the tooth, many plugs i use being Native Only (no AAX-DSP compliment) and my sessions requiring second physical CPUs to be incorporated into workflow - this is an issue.
  • Better integration with key plugs such as Melodyne - especially tempo tracking (LIVE recordings even by the world's best drummers play to the crowd, not the click) would be YUGE in terms of workflow efficiency.
  • A focus on AAX-DSP to have the same sort of quality/differentiation that has made UAD such an important processing choice. While AAX-DSP is huge for me (I fill 2 HDX cards in each of my sessions), companies like DMG Audio have bypassed AAX-DSP for flagship plugs such as EQuilibrium. This is an issue moving forward.
  • Plug Stability - new products such as BitWig have their plugs sandboxed to keep DAW stability high. Pro Tools needs to be focussed on this important direction.
Hey Treason,

That was a great rundown. Well done. I think that's a helpful share indeed, as opposed to others who think because things work for them, they should work for others. There are way too many variables. For instance, I've heard nothing but praises for 12.7.1 from some people. Your post has made me decide to re-install 12.6.1 and see how it goes.

I tried 12.6 and 12.7/12.71. MIDI issues and too many CPU errors made me roll back, just like you. I didn't test 12.6.1 with MIDI /VIs because the work I was doing then did not involve that, but audio was very stable. I rolled back because I had a new production with a tight deadline that involved a lot of MIDI programming, and I didn't want to use a version I hadn't tested properly. 12.4 had proven itself MIDI-wise, so I went there.

I agree with your 12.8 points with an emphasis on the last two.

A focus on AAX-DSP
AAX generally still seems half-baked. For me, it doesn't work very well with too many plugins, and though that could be the case sometimes, I don't think it's always the 3rd party's fault.

Plug Stability
Interestingly, though I didn't know about BitWig, I've been wondering for some time why PT, instead of just crashing sometimes, can't issue a warning about specific plugins that it can't handle. That would make it easy for the user to know why PT crashed. As it stands now, it's way too much trouble to remove all 3rd party plugins and test them one by one.

Thanks again for your insight.
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Last edited by lesbrunn; 05-29-2017 at 09:41 AM.
  #592  
Old 05-29-2017, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

At least for me on 12.7.1. If I stay away from the instrument tracks and use aux tracks and midi tracks like before the midi timing is correct. Or I use vepro 6. It's just the instrument tracks in 12.7.1 that doesn't work for me. I just don't use them anymore.


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  #593  
Old 05-29-2017, 12:43 PM
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TOM@METRO TOM@METRO is offline
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

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Originally Posted by arche3 View Post
At least for me on 12.7.1. If I stay away from the instrument tracks and use aux tracks and midi tracks like before the midi timing is correct. Or I use vepro 6. It's just the instrument tracks in 12.7.1 that doesn't work for me. I just don't use them anymore.


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Interesting. I need to go have a better look at this.
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  #594  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

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Originally Posted by Shatzer View Post
This is 100% incorrect and very naive. I know Pro Tools and computers inside and out. Have been using it for years. (Since version 7 at least) and have never had a problem with it until the release of 12.5. Something changed after 12.4 and it wasn't anything on my end.
1. After 12.4, problem! The Cloud ...
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  #595  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

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Originally Posted by cmbourget View Post
1. After 12.4, problem! The Cloud ...
+1
  #596  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by treason View Post
I do use MIDI in some sessions, so yes I punted on 12.6 and 12.7.1 due to MIDI issues.

I've documented this before, however for context - my sessions are large - typically around 350 voices and span two physical CPUs via VEP6. I mix & master in the same session, with the second CPU handling the majority of the mastering processing. The second CPU runs VEP 6 (not Pro Tools) and has a compliment of DMG Audio, Nugen, brainworx and kazrog plugs. The current project has me focussed on mix/master of LIVE material for a 2017 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductee.

For me 12.6.1 is solid for two key reasons;
  • MIDI is solid for me. That doesn't mean MIDI is great in PT, it's rudimentary and I use it when writing in a very basic manner. I still use Opcode's Studio Vision for more adventurous MIDI and import completed SV MIDI into Pro Tools when writing. I also use it for basic sweetening (i.e. augment LIVE Taurus Pedal tracks with HW moogs).
  • Lack of -917x errors, more efficient CPU usage and lack of crashes. For me - I haven't had any crashes in months. It is absolutely rock solid for editing, mixing and mastering applications as I outlined above.
Again - 12.7.x used more CPU to accomplish the same tasks (same session used more Native CPU processing), hence my professed love for 12.6.1 on macOS 10.11.6.

ymmv

I'd love 12.8 to focus on a couple key issues:
  • MIDI - PT MIDI has always been rudimentary at best. It would be nice to have it rock solid, and improve it's complement of functionality.
  • CPU Efficiency - 12.7x was a leap backwards in terms of CPU demand - regardless of whether or not VIs were incorporated into sessions. With Mac Pros long in the tooth, many plugs i use being Native Only (no AAX-DSP compliment) and my sessions requiring second physical CPUs to be incorporated into workflow - this is an issue.
  • Better integration with key plugs such as Melodyne - especially tempo tracking (LIVE recordings even by the world's best drummers play to the crowd, not the click) would be YUGE in terms of workflow efficiency.
  • A focus on AAX-DSP to have the same sort of quality/differentiation that has made UAD such an important processing choice. While AAX-DSP is huge for me (I fill 2 HDX cards in each of my sessions), companies like DMG Audio have bypassed AAX-DSP for flagship plugs such as EQuilibrium. This is an issue moving forward.
  • Plug Stability - new products such as BitWig have their plugs sandboxed to keep DAW stability high. Pro Tools needs to be focussed on this important direction.

Of course I want 12.8 to be rock solid, but I'd like those few key improvements as well. And Cloud Collaboration - pffft. DropBox is mine. Wish they'd gut that 'experiment" from PT ... or offer a stable version without it.
Really agree with all this. Well said.
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  #597  
Old 05-29-2017, 07:25 PM
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Default Where is 12.8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by treason View Post
  • MIDI - PT MIDI has always been rudimentary at best. It would be nice to have it rock solid, and improve it's complement of functionality.
  • CPU Efficiency - 12.7x was a leap backwards in terms of CPU demand - regardless of whether or not VIs were incorporated into sessions.
  • Better integration with key plugs such as Melodyne - especially tempo tracking (LIVE recordings even by the world's best drummers play to the crowd, not the click) would be YUGE in terms of workflow efficiency.
  • A focus on AAX-DSP to have the same sort of quality/differentiation that has made UAD such an important processing choice.

Of course I want 12.8 to be rock solid, but I'd like those few key improvements as well. And Cloud Collaboration - pffft......Wish they'd gut that 'experiment" from PT ...
Word up !!!!
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  #598  
Old 05-29-2017, 07:33 PM
treason treason is offline
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

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Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing View Post
Wow!!! What are you even running Studio Vision on? A 9600? And what operating system do you use? I know lots of people who loved Studio Vision, but haven't heard of anyone using it since the '90's. Impressive.
Studio Vision still rocks! Fastest, best editing windows/cursor control and multiple synchronized lanes. Nothing is better for doing realistic drum work!

I still have a Powermac G4 733. 20 years old and still reliable as ever. macOS 9.2.2 still lives!
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Last edited by treason; 05-29-2017 at 07:47 PM.
  #599  
Old 05-29-2017, 07:45 PM
treason treason is offline
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

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Originally Posted by lesbrunn View Post
Hey Treason,

I tried 12.6 and 12.7/12.71. MIDI issues and too many CPU errors made me roll back, just like you. I didn't test 12.6.1 with MIDI /VIs because the work I was doing then did not involve that, but audio was very stable. I rolled back because I had a new production with a tight deadline that involved a lot of MIDI programming, and I didn't want to use a version I hadn't tested properly. 12.4 had proven itself MIDI-wise, so I went there.
Just to reiterate what was said by Arche3 in the post following yours, I also use VEP6 for all my VIs - what little I have. I host Kontakt 5.5.2 for Abbey Road drums, for Slate SSD4, Garritan CFX and a couple of Acoustic Samples electric pianos from within VEP6. Most of my MIDI is HW synths.

I also do not use Instrument tracks - rather MIDI tracks pointing to VEP or the HW synths, using AUX channels for the VEP host, and VEP plug-in outputs to track. Kinda old-school ... if that makes sense.

Hope your journey into 12.6.1 yields useful results!
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DSP & IO : Pro Tools HDX2(2018.3), 2x UAD Octo, HDIO 16x16 Analog IO(3), HDIO 16x16 Digital IO
Plugins: Avid, DMG Audio, Kush, oeksound, P'n'T, Plugin Alliance, Softube, SoundTheory, Sonnox, Sound Radix, SoundToys, UAD, VEP, etc
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  #600  
Old 05-29-2017, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Where is 12.8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by treason View Post
Just to reiterate what was said by Arche3 in the post following yours, I also use VEP6 for all my VIs - what little I have. I host Kontakt 5.5.2 for Abbey Road drums, for Slate SSD4, Garritan CFX and a couple of Acoustic Samples electric pianos from within VEP6. Most of my MIDI is HW synths.

I also do not use Instrument tracks - rather MIDI tracks pointing to VEP or the HW synths, using AUX channels for the VEP host, and VEP plug-in outputs to track. Kinda old-school ... if that makes sense.

Hope your journey into 12.6.1 yields useful results!
Arche3 says he's found instrument tracks problematic; is it the same with you and is that why you don't use them? I direct midi via instrument tracks to VEP and back from VEP outputs without problems (12.4) But there's a little delay sometimes from some VI's.
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