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  #1  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:26 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

Cause 95% of my stuff are digital synths, the cheapest a/d will do.. d/a converters on all my synths are not better specced than any recent even cheap audio interface, so there's no point spending a lot of money.

I am just trying to work out the very cheapest way, whether a combo of adat (i already have 16 focusrite octopre a/d through adat if that can be integrated or helps me save money), or avid, or third party interfaces.. whatever..

Basically i just want it to work LOL.

Any ideas/real world experiences/recommendations?

Antelope is 11K AUD for 64 ins with goliath, and still there are only 32 on board anyway.. so to me that's way too expensive.. i want cheaper than that if possible.. any brand, even any places you might suggest i should look for second hand.. Most american stores have ridiculous postage costs to OZ on ebay, plus many of them are 120 volts, etc. They also exceed the no added tax threshold, then there will be customs fees and stuff..

TIA. Muchly.

This is to finally price once and for all whether i can move up to hdx from apollo vanilla.. and if not, i am just going to put the HD idea out of my head for good.
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2018, 11:54 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

Rule #1-you can't get more than 32 IO on any hardware that doesn't include an HDN or HDX card, so 3rd party stuff is out of contention Assuming you have an HDN or HDX card, your cheapest option is likely to be 4 used 192 IO's with 4 lightpipe preamps.
The "standard" 192 has 8 analog IO and 8 digital IO(this covers 32 of your desired 64 total). ("standard" 192's are about $450 on the used market)
4 Behringer ADA8200's, connected via lightpipe would provide the other 32 IO(on the 192 digital ports) The ADA8200 is under $200(even brand new).

More stuff to consider:
the cables and lightpipe runs to patch it all together
The 192 analog inputs are not mic preamps, so you may still need more preamps
The ADA8200's do have preamps(and they are not bad at all) but the input XLR's are all on the front. If that's an issue, The Focusrite OctoPre Mk II Dynamic is an option(but does cost more, and probably doesn't sound any better).
If the 192 is too pricey, the 96 IO is an even cheaper option
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  #3  
Old 02-15-2018, 11:57 AM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Default Re: Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

He could also do a 192 digital if he doesn't need ad converters and is just going in lightpipe. Those are 200 bucks on ebay. FYI the ad converters on the 192s sound great.
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  #4  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:34 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

Hi there..

First, THANK YOU...

You have no idea how much I appreciate the help.

Secondly, to albee, I don't have HDX yet.. the whole point I am looking at it is

1) Right now i am limited as you say to 32 i/o with my apollo and core audio

2)I have 2 analog mixers for a further 46 io, going into the apollos, meaning my real inputs currently are 46 in the mixers, then subbing 8 of those to apollos, so 26 in the apollos (2 adat 8, apollo 8 and apollo twin), minus 8 coming in from the mixers is 18 left over.

So i have 48 + 18 = 64 right now.

BUT.. and that's how i get around PT 32 limit, i track the mixers 8 tracks at a time to audio.

However, I have to jump between 2 analog mixers (1 desk 1 rack), apollo console, AND pro tools! It's kind of insane.

With HDX, i will be able to completely replace ALL mixers with AAX DSP and literally use pro tools as the mixer. Save a project.. reload.. ready to go.

So, some aax dsp effects have bad latency.. no problem.. everything will still play back in time due to integrated ADC.. which *means*.. after i have recorded the midi and monitored through raw HDX input, i can THEN put whatever effects i want on that input and it will play back in time..

NO worries about recording every synth to audio like with apollo.. I can automate anything (unlike apollo), and keep it in the midi domain. Nothing is better than that.

The bonuses of going HDX are huge to me. Huge.

I'll literally sell all my apollos and 2 of my satellites and just keep one octo so i can use some UAD effects in the project.

I will also get a waves soundgrid for $700 so i can offload most of my waves plugins to that.

So all my native power will be used for is VI's basically, and some fab filter FX which i can't live without (they are all so light, it's negligible).

HDX is my dream...

But just to get ONE card here is 11K with the HD software and one interface
Then, since I am working in one room, i will need a damn isobox for 3599 to put the sonnet thunderbolt expander and hdx card in, as well as any i.o with fans.

So it's a huge undertaking and THIS is especially why i don't want to spend bucketloads on A/D..

I am more than happy with my scarlet octopre for vocals.. more than happy.. and one guitar input...

As far as I understand, all the adat converters will have slightly different latency though..

is there any way to set the offset one measured, for each of them separately in HDX?

You say the standard 192 has 8 analog and 8 digital and that this covers 32..

no it doesn't..

I need 64 analog to digital only.. i only need one monitoring output in total and 2 headphones.. that's it.

So the 192 i/o would only give me 16 A/D, right? So with 2 of them i'd max out one HDX card and only get 32..

I can't afford a second HDx card right now.. so...I really need a way to get 32 inputs per digilink port.. which is what they are specced to anyway.. each hdx card can accept 64 inputs total and 64 outputs.

Cheers
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  #5  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:47 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

Geez, the hdx core cards on ebay that are second hand, card only, are more expensive than the brand new ones here. So weird.

I can never find a bargain on ebay.

I did find those cheap 192 i/o's though...

but as far as i understand, i will need to use 1 of the 2 hdx connectors to use just 16 inputs.. so this just won't work.. i might as well stick with the apollo ins i already have in that case...

The main reason i want to go to HDX is to completely eliminate any third party mixers.
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:21 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

Hmm, this could be the answer.. and it's like 2k here.. affordable..

It has 4 mic pres, i will never need more

it has 2 guitar inputs, i will never need more

it has 8 analog line inputs

and i already have 16 adat with my 2 focusrite octopres

So i will have similar i/o to what i have now with apollo

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Red4Pre

BUT.. it seems i can just buy a dante compatible a/d at any time and expand it

and one HDX card can handle 64 a/d

The problem i am worrying about is...

Apollo has a pro tools mode so even if you have 60 inputs, you can tell pro tools which 32 to see.

I am wondering if i can do this with the focusrite stuff...

i won't need the spdif in...

so what i think i will do is use the 24 line ins i would have ready to go via adat and the interface itself.

Then i have the mic pres and guitars whenever i need them;

Then i thought, i would find the cheapest dante 16 a/d on the market to add to it, to have 40 line ins to start with. And when i can afford it, i'd get the second dante a/d and have 56

But the interface says it's 56 in 64 out lol.. i don't get it, as it says i can add up to 64/io via dante

so confusing

I am just hoping i am on the right track.. as this could work and it's fanless i think.

I would only need a tiny iso box for the hdx chassis
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  #7  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:59 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Antelope I think

Scratch the 4 pre....

it has a noisy fan... but even worse, the guitar and analog ins are shared with the pres.. so you actually only get 8 analog ins plus my 2 adat is 24..

Nup.

Dante converters are super pricy. For example, the A16R is like 7 grand here for just 16 a/d.. So it would be too expensive to expand.

I think i may have found the answer.. It doesn't get the mic pres or instrument inputs of the goliath.. BUT...

https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/orion32-hd/

You actually get a flat 32 analog line level ins on the one interface, plus 16 adat

I can do my mic pres from my focusrite octopres, same with the 1 guitar in i need.

So i'll have 48 analog in, fully ready to integrate with HDX, for 5k AUD.
I'll get like 3500 for my 2 apollos, so i'll be 1500 out.

this is the answer and the only one i can think of.

I have literally done nothing other than search HD interfaces since i started this topic LOL.. i am SOOOO tired..

I know there are some antelope users here so i might track them down and ask them specific questions..

hey, the dsp on it doesn't hurt either..

I'll keep my 16 input rack mixer for now and there's my 64 ins.. can still get rid of the massive 32 channel yamaha bugger.

What i need to find out is if i can use the antelope DSP and then still go into a HDX channel for further dsp monitoring (for example).

And if i can ever afford a second HDX card, i'll the get a second orion HD, 48 + 48 = 96, will never need more a/d then that.

I think it's the most elegant solution.

2 cheap behringer ada8200's will cost circa 800 AUD.

Then 2 192 digis shipped/customs etc will be like 1500

So it will be like 2300 bucks to have 16 i/o on each 192 digi, 32 i./o, old and out of warranty in the case of the avids, for 2300 bucks, or 48 i.o for double the price.

I think it will be worth it to have a quality such as antelope , also a clock master of such quality too, and monitor outputs for my adams of such quality.

I literally almost threw in the towel before and almost upgraded my cubase for $200 aud and bought an apollo 16 to add to mine, and was going to say to hell with PT once and for all.

this 32 limit of avid is really getting my goat up.. I mean they are PUSHING me away, not pulling me towards them.

I couldn't give a toss about HD software, vanilla does all i need, but i would have no option.

I mean how desperate do i have to be that i will spend 7k on a hdx1 system.
1000 on a sonnet chassis
5k on an antelope

all to have 48 analog ins.

total 13K

When, i could just spend 4K and get another 16 uad inputs, (and 4 more chips) and even get a fourth uad anytime i am ready for another 16.. in a year or so or whatever.. and use *as many* inputs as i want in cubase or Logic. I could just have console on one monitor, cubase on the other and i'm done (logic all jokes aside is out of the question, it simply does not hold a candle to cubase).

If i stick with expanding apollo i'm going cubase.

Seriously. I am thinking about it cause I am frustrated.

If i stick with the HDX idea i am going antelope.

Don't get me wrong i LOVE Pt. It is the snappiest daw on sierra and nothing comes close to doing what it's memory locations can.. it's crazy powerful.. and i like almost everything else about it, apart from purposely imposed limitations.

Hey, the thread will stay open.,.

If anyone can think of ANY idea to get 48 or better yet 64 ins into a HDX card, for less money than my antelope idea.. please.. keep the suggestions coming.

Peace.
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  #8  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:54 PM
LukeHoward LukeHoward is offline
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Default Re: Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

Second hand 96 I/Os are cheap and have unbalanced ins.
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:14 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeHoward View Post
Second hand 96 I/Os are cheap and have unbalanced ins.
hi, not all of my synths are unbalanced, and even with the unbalanced ones i am using pseudo balanced cables from sound on sound that go into balanced inputs and sound great with minimal noise.

That said, i just checked out a 96 io on ebay and the analog input said TRS..

that's got to be balanced.. perhaps it's both like most interfaces

Was very cheap..
seems to have 8 analog in and 8 adat.

and to buy 4 of them would be like a grand.. so there's 32 in, and 32 in via adat.

there's my 64.

BUT....but.. wouldn't i need TWO hdx cards for that?

were the 92 i/o's generally reliable and how noisy are they?
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:16 PM
LukeHoward LukeHoward is offline
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Default Re: Cheapest possible way to get 64 HD A/D?

You're right, they are balanced (my bad). 96 should be reliable, perhaps not the most up to date or best sounding converters but you indicated that wasn't a problem. A single HDX card can support 64 simultaneous channels of I/O as it has two Digilink ports (each can carry 32 channels). Hope this helps.
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