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  #101  
Old 10-12-2011, 12:57 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
let me ask you a question then, room reverb aside, when you play the instrument, is there leakage of the instrument on to the other tracks? Example, if you play the tuba or tubas, do you hear it on the violins? (which shouldn't happen at all in a VI ) If no then it's possible to convert your stereo track to mono. You might lose the proper positioning from the conductor, but then again you can gain it back by proper pan positioning.
You wouldn't hear another instrument because these libraries were recorded such that each instrument in the case of a solo instrument or groups of instruments as in a violin section, for example, are the only instruments playing.

When the orchestra is playing as a group then yes, you would hear other instruments in spot mics if you've got mics with almost anything other than a cardioid or hypercardioid mic. It all comes down to proper mic techniques. Perhaps your questions might be better taken up by the people at VSL or LASS who actually make these libraries.

Besides - what do you have against stereo tracks? Why not use what a library maker gave you in the way they expect it to be used?
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Last edited by musicman691; 10-12-2011 at 01:10 PM. Reason: additional thought
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  #102  
Old 10-12-2011, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
You wouldn't hear another instrument because these libraries were recorded such that each instrument in the case of a solo instrument or groups of instruments as in a violin section, for example, are the only instruments playing.

When the orchestra is playing as a group then yes, you would hear other instruments in spot mics if you've got mics with almost anything other than a cardioid or hypercardioid mic. It all comes down to proper mic techniques. Perhaps your questions might be better taken up by the people at VSL or LASS who actually make these libraries.

Besides - what do you have against stereo tracks? Why not use what a library maker gave you in the way they expect it to be used?
That's exactly what I'm saying. Since you don't hear the bleeding of the other instruments in the mics, because it's a VI, then you can simply convert each track to mono without problem.

Quite simply, you get more tracks to use that way, and in all truthfulness, beside the room mics, the instruments would be mono anyways. I'm giving the guy that uses his 88 tracks constantly due to the VI other options here. Using a stereo track for a mono instrument is a waste of resources.
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  #103  
Old 10-12-2011, 01:49 PM
DarylG DarylG is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
That's exactly what I'm saying. Since you don't hear the bleeding of the other instruments in the mics, because it's a VI, then you can simply convert each track to mono without problem.

Quite simply, you get more tracks to use that way, and in all truthfulness, beside the room mics, the instruments would be mono anyways. I'm giving the guy that uses his 88 tracks constantly due to the VI other options here. Using a stereo track for a mono instrument is a waste of resources.
Vienna Instruments are not mono, in spite of what you may think. There are some instruments that you can narrow the stereo width of so much that they almost become mono, but trying to make most of them mono is a disaster waiting to happen. There are no room mics. There are no spot mics. You get one sample, which (I think) is a combination of all the mics used for recording summed to one, stereo instrument.

D
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  #104  
Old 10-12-2011, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

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Vienna Instruments are not mono, in spite of what you may think. There are some instruments that you can narrow the stereo width of so much that they almost become mono, but trying to make most of them mono is a disaster waiting to happen. There are no room mics. There are no spot mics. You get one sample, which (I think) is a combination of all the mics used for recording summed to one, stereo instrument.

D
Yes well that's due to the actual room mics being combined with the spot mic into the sample. Cause when you mic a violin, tuba or any other instruments of the kind, with the exception of piano, drums, stereo guitar pedals, harp. You usually use only one mic on it, then place room mics to get the room ambiance and stereo imagine for ensembles. Which you already know of course. By it self the instrument is not stereo which is what I'm saying. Now wither or not you have control on the room mics, that depends on the libraries. But if you are only using one instrument sample you can do what I said and save on the resources.

I'm not 100% sure since I wasn't there at the recording of the samples. But most of the time, unless they are doing ensembles, it's one instruments placed in the studio with multiple mics, without actually placing the instruments in the position they would be when they are playing as a whole orchestra.
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  #105  
Old 10-12-2011, 02:23 PM
DarylG DarylG is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
Yes well that's due to the actual room mics being combined with the spot mic into the sample. Cause when you mic a violin, tuba or any other instruments of the kind, with the exception of piano, drums, stereo guitar pedals, harp. You usually use only one mic on it, then place room mics to get the room ambiance and stereo imagine for ensembles. Which you already know of course. By it self the instrument is not stereo which is what I'm saying. Now wither or not you have control on the room mics, that depends on the libraries. But if you are only using one instrument sample you can do what I said and save on the resources.

I'm not 100% sure since I wasn't there at the recording of the samples. But most of the time, unless they are doing ensembles, it's one instruments placed in the studio with multiple mics, without actually placing the instruments in the position they would be when they are playing as a whole orchestra.
When I was using the Gigastudio version of VSL Cube I did convert some of the instruments to mono, but I do think that it was at the sacrifice of some of the sonority. I'm no longer prepared to do that, just so that I can mix in Pro Tools. For me it's one compromise too many. Workarounds are OK, providing that they don't take too much extra time, but when the actual product starts to suffer, that's where I draw the line.

My current project is relatively small, so track count won't be a problem, but the one after that will have to mixed in another program, because Pro Tools really isn't up to the task.

Mind you, who knows what PT 10 will bring, so by the time that I'm ready to mix, things may have changed. Who knows? Avid does, that's for sure.

D
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  #106  
Old 10-12-2011, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

It's interesting that everyone is focusing on talking about the benefits 64Bit would bring to using VI's when that is only one of the advantages of a 64Bit system and probably not even the biggest advantage.

Being able to load larger parts or even a whole program (hell maybe even two) into the virtual memory of a system will mean a much smoother & faster workflow. So for professional studios particularly, this will have a huge impact. Whilst the first version of PT10 may or may not have that full capacity to start with, it is the direction modern computing is heading.

Now that 64Bit operating systems are gaining consumer momentum, the motherboards aimed at the consumer market are increasingly upping the ante with it not being uncommon to see mobo's with 128GB+ RAM capabilities already on the shelf. Most surprisingly systems with that capability are relatively cheap, at least for those who are capable of stitching a computer together themselves.

Those who don't see 64Bit programs as a big deal are speaking purely out of ignorance in not knowing how much of a potential improvement, not just to Pro Tools, it will bring. I say potential because it depends on what Avid/Adobe/Microsoft etc do with their own programs.

For me personally, PT10 is probably the most eagerly anticipated version because with the latest technology it has the potential to take a quantum leap into the future. I can only hope that Avid recognizes it and seizes the opportunity.

Judging by the link noiseboyuk provided earlier in this thread, they look to be on the right track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ez-G...e_gdata_player
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  #107  
Old 10-12-2011, 05:37 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
That's exactly what I'm saying. Since you don't hear the bleeding of the other instruments in the mics, because it's a VI, then you can simply convert each track to mono without problem.

Quite simply, you get more tracks to use that way, and in all truthfulness, beside the room mics, the instruments would be mono anyways. I'm giving the guy that uses his 88 tracks constantly due to the VI other options here. Using a stereo track for a mono instrument is a waste of resources.
Bleed from other instruments has NOTHING to do with whether a sample or track is in stereo so your argument is moot at best.
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  #108  
Old 10-13-2011, 01:47 AM
DarylG DarylG is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

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Originally Posted by zedhed View Post
It's interesting that everyone is focusing on talking about the benefits 64Bit would bring to using VI's when that is only one of the advantages of a 64Bit system and probably not even the biggest advantage.

Being able to load larger parts or even a whole program (hell maybe even two) into the virtual memory of a system will mean a much smoother & faster workflow. So for professional studios particularly, this will have a huge impact. Whilst the first version of PT10 may or may not have that full capacity to start with, it is the direction modern computing is heading.
The RAM disc thing is not much use to me, but if I am using multiple reverbs, the amount of memory used by the IRs, together with used by copious automation, does get rather large, so in that case 64bit could be very handy. Mind you, when VE Pro 5 comes out it this will be less important, because I will be able to host the memory hungry plugs outside of Pro Tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedhed View Post
Now that 64Bit operating systems are gaining consumer momentum, the motherboards aimed at the consumer market are increasingly upping the ante with it not being uncommon to see mobo's with 128GB+ RAM capabilities already on the shelf. Most surprisingly systems with that capability are relatively cheap, at least for those who are capable of stitching a computer together themselves.

Those who don't see 64Bit programs as a big deal are speaking purely out of ignorance in not knowing how much of a potential improvement, not just to Pro Tools, it will bring. I say potential because it depends on what Avid/Adobe/Microsoft etc do with their own programs.
I wonder whether we will end using such a large amount of memory. The amount of time that it would take to load is enormous, and I think that for many people SSD would be much more convenient. Not only would things load faster, but in the case of Virtual Instruments the pre-load buffer wouldn't need to be anywhere near as big (in some cases) so the memory usage could be reduced, rather than increased.

D
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  #109  
Old 10-13-2011, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 10 looks great!!!

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Originally Posted by DarylG View Post
I wonder whether we will end using such a large amount of memory. The amount of time that it would take to load is enormous, and I think that for many people SSD would be much more convenient. Not only would things load faster, but in the case of Virtual Instruments the pre-load buffer wouldn't need to be anywhere near as big (in some cases) so the memory usage could be reduced, rather than increased.

D
Once loaded into memory though, there would be no need to flush so it would remain loaded, that is if is designed as a program to do so.
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