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  #801  
Old 10-25-2014, 02:52 AM
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JFreak JFreak is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

I'm delighted that this thread has transformed into a more polite one overnight Please continue to voice your concerns and the more polite you are the better your chances are that Avid hears you.
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  #802  
Old 10-25-2014, 02:57 AM
NipL NipL is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

October 20th Avid came up with this Q2 report:
http://files.shareholder.com/downloa...l_Releases.pdf

Result down 2/3 compared same period 2013 - so result 30% only from previous year. From 10M profit, to 3M loss if I read the correct columns.

Announcement of new policy was then before this was published but knowing the figures.

So it's obvious they had to do something now that this comes to public.

They obviously had bad advisors in the last year - so future will tell what advisors come up with now - new people, or same people.

What are Avid Q3 figures?
Shouldn't they be up by now?

Compare to Microsoft here:
REDMOND, Wash. — October 23, 2014 — Microsoft Corp. today announced revenue of $23.20 billion for the quarter ended September 30, 2014.

They have Q3 ready.
http://www.microsoft.com/investor/Ea...1/default.aspx

Seems to me Avid are still one quarte late with reportings.
  #803  
Old 10-25-2014, 03:08 AM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Righty27 View Post
So, new DUC members/PT users, forum lurkers, etc. who have yet to voice their opinion on this thread are probably as powerful as the 'usual suspects' debating the finer points (which I suggest is also useful).
Absolutely.

Long time lurkers, time to make your voice heard
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  #804  
Old 10-25-2014, 04:57 AM
RussUK RussUK is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

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Originally Posted by noiseboyuk View Post
Absolutely.

Long time lurkers, time to make your voice heard
+1
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  #805  
Old 10-25-2014, 05:01 AM
RussUK RussUK is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

One question that does not seem to have been asked (unless it got lost in all the comments) is why if Pro Tools 11 is so popular is Avid having to use incentives to get people to invest in it?

Even more ironic is the fact that mid September Avid implemented a Unilateral Pricing Policy (UPP) with all its dealers in the USA (illegal in the EU and UK) which forbids any kind of discounting. More on UPP here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_policy

Which makes the question even more relevant, why implement a UPP to maintain the price of Pro Tools and then have a fire sale wrapped up in a support plan?
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  #806  
Old 10-25-2014, 05:28 AM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

We don't have the sales numbers for Pro Tools, let alone its competitors ... but I suspect the answer to Russ' question is evident in these pricing policies/strategy.

To compare like-for-like, JRRShop have the full PT11 licence @ 10% off the current $699 price. If Logic's $199 was already compelling (especially with Apple's apparent move away from version number upgrades), Pro Tools' inevitable recurring costs (due to support plans which are penalised if they lapse) would put off all but the most committed!

Whilst possibly targeting different sectors of the DAW market, if Logic was not outselling Pro Tools by some margin before, this won't help.
And something I don't think has been mentioned yet, if Pro Tools users decline, developer interest in AAX could follow, with less updates, new products, etc. - in turn, this could lead to further reduced interest in Pro Tools.

FYI, found these which probably reflect different audiences -

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...14-2015-a.html

http://uadforum.com/general-discussi...-use-poll.html
  #807  
Old 10-25-2014, 05:32 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is online now
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussUK View Post
One question that does not seem to have been asked (unless it got lost in all the comments) is why if Pro Tools 11 is so popular is Avid having to use incentives to get people to invest in it?

Even more ironic is the fact that mid September Avid implemented a Unilateral Pricing Policy (UPP) with all its dealers in the USA (illegal in the EU and UK) which forbids any kind of discounting. More on UPP here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_policy

Which makes the question even more relevant, why implement a UPP to maintain the price of Pro Tools and then have a fire sale wrapped up in a support plan?
Maybe Avid is trying to squeeze out all dealers but a select few making PT like those products you see on TV that say 'not available in retail stores'? Or even more insidious - only able to buy PT through Avid directly? Like Apple did with Logic Pro?
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  #808  
Old 10-25-2014, 05:54 AM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Maybe Avid is trying to squeeze out all dealers but a select few making PT like those products you see on TV that say 'not available in retail stores'? Or even more insidious - only able to buy PT through Avid directly? Like Apple did with Logic Pro?
Looks possible - accepting lower volumes whilst cutting out the middle man (lower support costs, etc.). Could explain dealers looking to move stock before the new offer becomes available?
  #809  
Old 10-25-2014, 06:24 AM
c0c0p0ps c0c0p0ps is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

I am one of the 'lurkers' that has been following this thread on a daily basis since the Avid announcement. Only a year ago I was also following the thread regarding the CPTK withdrawal with the same interest, as then like now I am in a somewhat state of disbelief at the decision making from this company I have invested years of time and money into.

Like many others I began using Pro Tools in the late 90s when a large London Studio I was working as in house engineer hosted the launch event for Pro Tools 5. I was very fortunate that the facility sent me for training as they were one of the first to ditch tape install full time Pro Tools rigs as they could see this was where the industry was headed. It was a system that immediately grabbed me and I have used exclusively since, converting many other engineers, musicians and hobbyists along the way.

From the first days of the LE offerings I always had a home / edit station that I would use alongside the TDM, then HD systems at the commercial studios I was working in. This of course meant buying into the Digidesign hardware and receiving the software for free. I immediately purchased the Music Production Toolkit upon its release and never once thought it was an unreasonable price for the added benefits it gave. Again I purchased the DV Toolkit when that came out, and although I found the price for that a little steep it bridged the gap between my TDM / HD workflow and my home set up allowing me to best manage time and recording budgets.

All I wanted from MPTK was the extra track count, all I wanted from DVTK was the import session data ability (as I said I do music mixing so have no interest in post work options). Both toolkits I upgraded to the version 2 releases - again never even questioned the cost as I thought it was fair and reasonable, and I then took advantage of the upgrade to the CPTK for owners of both when that was released.

I never understood peoples criticism of Digidesign. I thought they were a great company focused on making good tools for audio engineers. I was a previous user of both Logic and Cubase but have never looked at either since first starting work with pro tools. People have made comparisons to Apple and Logic in this thread and for me one of the biggest mistakes Avid made was uncoupling the software from the hardware. I have never known such stable systems as the LE series of interfaces, and since Pro Tools 9 it has got progressively worse. Particularly with 11 and an entire new codebase in the software. These new prices are more to buy just the basic software than I think I paid for the entire 003 factory bundle with a ton of plugins thrown in as well as the interface. Plus Digidesign gave me a free update when the next version of pro tools was released as it was within some kind of purchase window (about 3 months I believe).

With the scrapping of the CPTK last year I still do not understand why people thought they got a 'deal' at paying $599 (£480 to us in the UK) simply to keep features which had already been paid for - 3 times in purchasing various toolkits! Needless to say I have not made that purchase and have simply been using regular 11 and seeing how much it affects my workflow. The only feature I really want back is my extended track count, but to me that is not worth forking out $599 per year.

Personally I consider the native HD software a crippled version as much as LE / 'Vanilla' as I see people call it. The 256 tracks is what was basically voices on the TDM system so merely 128 stereo tracks - not a great deal more than the 96 stereo (or 192 with some clever workflow) of the Vanilla Pro Tools. Hardly the 750 odd of proper hardware based HD or simply limited to CPU power as many competing DAW systems.

If the plan by Avid with this subscription nonsense is to try and outrage people again to then fool them into thinking they are getting a 'deal' I really think it will backfire. I have to say I have not seen a single commercial studio in London running 11 yet. Many HD studios are still on 8. From my experience (and I have to admit I am a bit of a geek) none of my colleagues / friends in engineering are even aware of this move yet! People I have spoken to and filled in the details of the proposed plan are as outraged as everyone else!

Maybe with their priorities in the video world Avid simply do not understand the state of the music industry at the moment and how massively recording budgets have been slashed. 10 years ago I was working with album budgets of £100k+ whereas recent albums for the same arts are a tenth of that. The money is not there for ridiculous plans like this. Pro Tools is simply a 'tool' which we have all purchased to enable us to do our work. Like a builder would buy himself a hammer and saw. These proposed fees are completely out of touch with the reality of what studios / professionals are earning.

Someone suggested a few pages back having one single uniform price point - Absolutely it should be that! It is a single installer for the software and the people with more advanced systems have already paid their premium to have the benefits, be it with HDX hardware or through software upgrades like the toolkits. These upgrade prices have to be realistic. I think $199 is far too much, especially when Digidesign used to only charge £40 or so!

If they are absolutely hell bent on making it some kind of subscription model for updates then it goes without saying that it needs to be in line with the rest of the industry. Waves have it right with their update plan, Izotope are fantastic - no matter which version of the software you have it is the same price to upgrade. People that pay for each new version have the benefit of use and those that don't are not penalised they do move up.

As I said at the start I have been a lurker for a long time with the call by others to come forward I hope that finally Avid will start to see the absolute insanity in their plans and have a radical rethink as just the 5 or 6 other professionals I have spoken to this past week have no interest in the new plans. No interest in the cloud crap, marketplace, or access to a useless support network. Fine I accept some people may actually want to use it in which case they can pay - In what world would people pay for something that will never be used! I can say that safely after over 15 years of troubleshooting Pro Tools rigs on every level.

Please Avid come to your senses and take a leaf out of Apples book. Lock down the hardware again as they did scrapping clone machines in the 90s, build a cost effective ecosystem that supports users on every level, then maybe Pro Tools will have a future beyond March 2016!
  #810  
Old 10-25-2014, 06:40 AM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0c0p0ps View Post
If the plan by Avid with this subscription nonsense is to try and outrage people again to then fool them into thinking they are getting a 'deal' I really think it will backfire. I have to say I have not seen a single commercial studio in London running 11 yet. Many HD studios are still on 8. From my experience (and I have to admit I am a bit of a geek) none of my colleagues / friends in engineering are even aware of this move yet! People I have spoken to and filled in the details of the proposed plan are as outraged as everyone else!
Thanks for coming forward c0c0p0ps - other lurkers' views are very welcome regardless if 'for' or 'against'. If you like Avid's plans or feel e.g. that in commercial terms, they could help Avid/Pro Tools survive, we'd like to hear this too ... I don't think you'll be 'jumped on' but Avid need to see the full lay of the land and we wouldn't want this thread to appear to only represent those 'against'.
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