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  #791  
Old 10-24-2014, 03:09 PM
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zedhed zedhed is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Bruce is a very hard working contractor who helps manage the day to day of DUC for Avid, he is not who you should be looking at to provide answers to the many marketing/business questions raised here.
Then I would suggest shouldn't have said anything in the first place. What he had to say was meaningless anyway so I guess in trying to do the right thing, he lined himself up as a target...unjustifiably.

Having not heard from him again I suspect he's worked that out for himself. In any case, the collective outrage is certainly not aimed at him personally.
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  #792  
Old 10-24-2014, 04:59 PM
mesaone mesaone is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

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Originally Posted by zedhed View Post
Then I would suggest shouldn't have said anything in the first place. What he had to say was meaningless anyway so I guess in trying to do the right thing, he lined himself up as a target...unjustifiably
What? He's keeping the 3rd Party AAX list current. It's not meaningless just because it doesn't address this thread, there's more going on in the world of Pro Tools than a new licensing model.
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  #793  
Old 10-24-2014, 05:46 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedhed View Post
Then I would suggest shouldn't have said anything in the first place. What he had to say was meaningless anyway so I guess in trying to do the right thing, he lined himself up as a target...unjustifiably.

Having not heard from him again I suspect he's worked that out for himself. In any case, the collective outrage is certainly not aimed at him personally.
IIRC Bruce posted once to this thread and was innocently pointing out where questions were answered already in the FAQ etc.

And, I am not trying to deflect any frustration or anger aimed at Avid in general. It should be pretty obvious how I personally feel about Avid right now.
  #794  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: New Licensing

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Originally Posted by mesaone View Post
What? He's keeping the 3rd Party AAX list current. It's not meaningless just because it doesn't address this thread,
What the hell does that have to do with this thread and his one post in it (which is what I'm referring to)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesaone View Post
there's more going on in the world of Pro Tools than a new licensing model.
Gee, no S*#t sherlock, I guess that's why there's hundreds of threads on all manner of subject. In case you haven't noticed, the feelings being expressed in this thread may have a very significant impact on what's going to go on in the future of Pro Tools!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
IIRC Bruce posted once to this thread and was innocently pointing out where questions were answered already in the FAQ etc.
I agree, which is why I said; "he lined himself up as a target...unjustifiably."
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  #795  
Old 10-24-2014, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: New Licensing

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Originally Posted by zedhed View Post
What the hell does that have to do with this thread and his one post in it (which is what I'm referring to)?
I didn't see Bruce post in this thread. "what does it have to do with this thread" is exactly why I was wondering about the reason you brought him up.

If he did post in this thread (and if that's the post you referred to as meaningless) then I apologize, I misunderstood what you were referring to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedhed View Post
Gee, no S*#t sherlock
Okay, now I take back my apology. Pro Tools is serious for many of us, but not so much that we can't rein in our emotions before cursing each other out over the internet.
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  #796  
Old 10-24-2014, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: New Licensing

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Okay, now I take back my apology. Pro Tools is serious for many of us, but not so much that we can't rein in our emotions before cursing each other out over the internet.
Ok, I apologize. I'm not here to make things any worse than they already are and I'm sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me.

Time for me to bow out of this conversation.
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  #797  
Old 10-24-2014, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zedhed View Post
Ok, I apologize. I'm not here to make things any worse than they already are and I'm sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me.

Time for me to bow out of this conversation.
It's okay, apology accepted, it happens. Like I said, I misinterpreted. But I meant no malice, so maybe this conversation can be steered to more civil territory.
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  #798  
Old 10-24-2014, 10:52 PM
b1daly b1daly is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

I know in case, and I'm guessing in many others too, my dismay is more about the overall damage to the Pro Tools platform from these wrongheaded licensing moves as it is about direct increased cost. I'm heavily invested in Pro Tools as an owner of licenses and hardware, as a user with a complex workflow and legacy projects built around Pro Tools, and I'm the developer of a product that works exclusively with Pro Tools.

Someone above pointed out how it's just business. If I thought Avid was making sound business decisions, it would be easier to swallow what amounts to a significant increase in upgrade cost. But the negative feedback alone from this decision is going to be costly.

In my darker moments I fear that this really has little to do with making hard choices for the benefit of the business, and instead it reflects gamesmanship by upper management to, who really don't give a rat's ASS about the health of the platform or the success of the users. Or the shareholders for that matter.

If it is a sincere effort at a winning business strategy, I think they are vastly underestimating the non-linear nature of a software market where platform and network effects are foundational to the success of the product. These are chaotic systems, not easily controlled. (As an example, look at Microsofts utter inability to break into the upper ranks of the mobile phone market.)

As a simple example, it's hard to believe raising the price of Pro Tools to 899, especially when it's a feature limited version, is going to attract new users. What new users do they think they are going to get here? It's ridiculous.

New users are mission critical to maintaining market share and strength. This is common sense. They really seem to be gambling that they have enough users who simply can't leave that they can raise prices enough to offset the loss of user base.

Anyhow, I do hope Avid is at least paying attention to this thread still, as there have been many cogent points raised.
  #799  
Old 10-25-2014, 01:36 AM
RussUK RussUK is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
IIRC Bruce posted once to this thread and was innocently pointing out where questions were answered already in the FAQ etc.

And, I am not trying to deflect any frustration or anger aimed at Avid in general. It should be pretty obvious how I personally feel about Avid right now.
The reason for the radio silence is probably twofold:

1. Firstly, no is allowed to say anything about this. If this is a decision from the top then all that anyone can say (if allowed) is to restate Avid's position. Doing otherwise might get people fired.

2. Secondly, Avid hope that if they ignore this long enough then it will go away.

Number 2 is standard PR strategy, ignore it and hopefully it will go away and something else will happen to bury it.

It is therefore essential to keep this conversation going, on topic and be very clear about the issues - Brian Daley writes a very measured and clear reason for his concerns. May I suggest that all those concerned do the same.

As Bob Olhsson said "Avid are evil' lines are pointless, go kick a fence to get your emotions and anger out and then come here to write your considered concerns to Avid. They are being read, simply at this point the drawbridge is up hoping that the food and water lasts long enough to get past the siege.
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  #800  
Old 10-25-2014, 02:25 AM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

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Originally Posted by RussUK View Post
Number 2 is standard PR strategy, ignore it and hopefully it will go away and something else will happen to bury it.

It is therefore essential to keep this conversation going, on topic and be very clear about the issues - Brian Daley writes a very measured and clear reason for his concerns. May I suggest that all those concerned do the same.

As Bob Olhsson said "Avid are evil' lines are pointless, go kick a fence to get your emotions and anger out and then come here to write your considered concerns to Avid. They are being read, simply at this point the drawbridge is up hoping that the food and water lasts long enough to get past the siege.
Good advice from Russ ... although I fear that this PR 101 strategy is founded on the effects of attrition on disgruntled/affected parties, with declining numbers speaking out, etc.

Let's face it, many users will not even be aware this is going on and only a small percentage of those who are unhappy will 'put pen to paper'. There's also a possibility that some silent users are fine with all of this, but I suspect someone would have spoken out by now. For Avid to ignore our opinions would only delay the effect of these decisions until unaware users are hit later on.

So, new DUC members/PT users, forum lurkers, etc. who have yet to voice their opinion on this thread are probably as powerful as the 'usual suspects' debating the finer points (which I suggest is also useful). Russ - many of us are regular PTE readers ... maybe you could set up a new poll on this topic for the weekend?

Anyway, for those who can benefit from the current PT11 upgrade offer, JRRShop have it in their promos e-mail today at 10% off i.e. $179.10 - no mention of support plans, etc.
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