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Old 05-14-2004, 09:04 AM
Howardk Howardk is offline
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Default Advantages of HD?

Most of the Studios in this area are still on the Mix platform while I have an HD3 system. When bidding on Mix projects I would like to be able to point out advantages of HD over Mix to provide an extra edge, over my beside charm and experience. I think I deserve this edge because I ante'd up and upgraded HD ($15,000 to upgrade hardware by the time I was done) and, unlike most of my competitors, I also have a paid-for-Plugin-folder. I have owned both however no advantages come to mind with my HD3 system over my old Mix 5 system for mix-down other than a little more DSP, which is not required for low track count projects. I am hoping I am missing some key points so I would appreciate input on:

What advantages of HD can I brag about to help intice a potential, semi or non-technical mix-down customer?
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Old 05-14-2004, 11:13 AM
roberts roberts is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

There are a few advantages right now. Software PI's, like Impact & Revibe. Hardware improvments 192's sound a lot better than 888|24's. More Powerful DSP than mix one Accel card is roughly 3 Mix card. Software features like ADC and a better sounding mix bus. Plus future software advances future versions of SW will not be avaiable for MIx with I am sure many new/better/time saving features that Mix will not have. Better, stronger, faster that will come with more future advancements.
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Old 05-14-2004, 11:31 AM
PeeTee PeeTee is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

There's no advantage to the client if they only want Pro Tools. And, just because you spent $15k on your HD upgrade doesn't mean you can charge more then the guy down the street with a MixPlus system. What ever the going rate in your area is, is the going rate.
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Old 05-14-2004, 12:01 PM
Ozzie Ozzie is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

Pee Tee

I take it you have a mix system. I have HD and charge accordingly there are numerous improvements on mix.
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Old 05-14-2004, 12:02 PM
nukmusic nukmusic is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

Ya, I agree with last post. Just try to increase business, not prices. HD is much better than Mix+, if you are just talking 'bout ORIGINAL hardware and software only. But what if that Mix+ studio has a few Apogee converters to bypass the MIX+ interfaces.

Or a Protools LE setup with an Apogee rosetta 800 and a collecton of great mics and preamps ......Then tranfer the sessions to an SSL and HD setup for mix down. . I'm seeing it done alot.

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Old 05-14-2004, 12:23 PM
newburysound newburysound is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

We have owned an HD system for some time now and perhaps the most important feature I always point out is the higher sample rate that we record at (88.2khz) is about TWICE as high as the typical rate those other Mix studios can record at. Does it sound better...of course. I point out the better transients, smoother highs, richer lows. Then throw in those other features as well. It may not result in a higher hourly rate, but it could be the difference between snaring the project or losing it to a PT Mix-only room.

Nothing irks me more than a prospect who compares you with someone operating out of their 2-room apartment on an LE system charging $25/hr ... why how dare I charge 3 times as much! To that intellectually-challenged "smart-shopper" ProTools is ProTools right? Educating the client is key. Keep your message short, sweet and potent. If he opts for a cheeseball studio, I always remind them you get what you pay for ... and later, dude!
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Old 05-14-2004, 12:54 PM
nukmusic nukmusic is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

Quote:
Nothing irks me more than a prospect who compares you with someone operating out of their 2-room apartment on an LE system charging $25/hr ... why how dare I charge 3 times as much!
You miss the point. Charge what you want. But guess what, you're "irk" even more , as more Le systems are being setup. Not just your 2 room apartment, Click here , I more up scale LE setup, Apogee, Neumann ,Focusrite, Manley, UA, Tube Tech, etc, etc, with great engineers. Bottom line it saves a few bucks. A month recording at $50 bucks an hr vs recording $150 buck an hr, to end up with the same quality, then transfer the sessions to an SSL and HD for mixdown web page . It's happening with a few MAJORS, bottom line. Wonder why Digi didn't enable the HD converters to work in a standalone mode like the MIX interface or doesn't want to increase inputs/outputs on the LE interfaces. makes you say hummmmmm.

Excuse me HowardK, but anyway. You can increase business or win projects by offering more than just good equipment. Some folks will pay a little more just because they fell comfortable with a certain engineer. Some engineers may have bad social skills, while others may have that ability to relate to the artist and create what we call, small talk. I have seen smallthings like that win projects.
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Old 05-14-2004, 02:13 PM
Howardk Howardk is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

Most people hear no advantage in increased sampling rate and many of those who can hear a difference feel the hit to DSP is too big a price to pay. To date I have only come across one session that was 88k2 and it sounded terrible for other reasons. Everything else is 48k or 44k1, most people I know with ears still use 44k1 and put their efforts into the source sounds. Regardless, when looking to mix a project recorded elsewhere the sampling rate and quality on the A/Ds has been pre-determined by how it was tracked.

I think we all agree that the engineering skills and social graces toward the client means the most. . . however when competing for mixdown work true technical advantage is often a foot in the door to open up discussions for a meet and greet. I quess I am looking for some advantage out of the extra investment I have made with my HD system. Hmmm. . .

Point on 6.4, yes it has ADC which has advantages, but does that have any huge bearing? I don't see it. I am so used to not having ADC that I manage my plugins, bussing and aux returns to virtually eliminate associated problems. Also it may be too technical a point to brag with the type of client I am talking about (Music people with great ears often don't understand or even care about recording technology detail. Their minds are in the technical aspects of music such as, melody, harmony, rhythm, etc. . .), so it may as well be moot. Lets take ProTools 6.4 out of the equation altogether, because it is an early release and most of us will stay away from it for awhile yet. As I survey across the continent I see many of the HD users are still on OS9 with dual boot to OSX, because of softsampler problems or other issues. I run but OS9 and OSX but have not found any advantage to using OSX and 6.2 that outwieghts the decreased user interface speed, some lingering technical issues (softsampler reliability/latency) and more $/time yet to spend to get everything alive on OSX (little things like backup software backward compatibility, converting my sample library etc. . .).

Again I ask, what real advantage does HD have over Mix Systems at mix time, other than more DSP horsepower (which is often not required)?
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Old 05-14-2004, 10:21 PM
PeeTee PeeTee is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

Quote:
Pee Tee

I take it you have a mix system. I have HD and charge accordingly there are numerous improvements on mix.
Yeah, I have a Mix system...and an SSL, class A outboard, a Studer A827, Ampex 1/2", a huge mic and amp/cab selection...and a big room to track in. I charge accordingly too.
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  #10  
Old 05-14-2004, 10:24 PM
PeeTee PeeTee is offline
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Default Re: Advantages of HD?

Quote:
Nothing irks me more than a prospect who compares you with someone operating out of their 2-room apartment on an LE system charging $25/hr
I charge $75/hr and do 75% of my editing on an MBox. Does the gear dictate my asking rate? No. Does it determine my value? NO! My skill/track record determines my value.
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