sorry...another WAVES post

[lancejorton]

Ken,

I am emailing my contact at Waves regarding this. I still have Waves V4 and am about to switch computers. If they refuse to authorize, I will get back to everyone on this board about it. In addition, I am going to contact a big-wig lawyer I am friends with in town (Houston) that does large class-action lawsuits (he was one of the primaries in the silicon implant suits). I want to find out if we have a case here. They can charge for upgrades, but I'm pretty sure they cannot force you to buy an upgrade if your computer dies and you get another one. That would violate the license agreement. Usually, it only takes a phone call.

--
Lance
lance@bluecouchstudios.com
http://www.bluecouchstudios.com

[wiota]

if anyone has any suggestions or can point me to a waves-less tdm thread, i am all ears.

Well, since you are running PT HD on a PC (in sig), don't go looking to Sound Toys to provide any plugins, since they only updated their plugins for Mac for PT7. They say that their Win XP updates are at least 6 months away (if that). They weren't going to support Windows at all, but they must have got enough complaints about it that they changed their minds.

And there's no guarantee that any plugin will be useful long term, with plugin makers getting bought out, giving up on products and dropping like flies.

[Ken P]

Ken,

I am emailing my contact at Waves regarding this. I still have Waves V4 and am about to switch computers. If they refuse to authorize, I will get back to everyone on this board about it. In addition, I am going to contact a big-wig lawyer I am friends with in town (Houston) that does large class-action lawsuits (he was one of the primaries in the silicon implant suits). I want to find out if we have a case here. They can charge for upgrades, but I'm pretty sure they cannot force you to buy an upgrade if your computer dies and you get another one. That would violate the license agreement. Usually, it only takes a phone call.

--
Lance
lance@bluecouchstudios.com
http://www.bluecouchstudios.com

wow... i am really interested to hear what happens. i have been doing rounds witth the support team from waves and getting absolutely no where. no matter what i say, they give me an automated response about how it is their policy, bal bla bla.

i've had other companies that were at least willing to bend the rules - i believe it was mezzo? they gave me a new authorization code for the same reason. that was just good customer service. sure WUP would be great if i was actually going to UPDATE something. that is clearly not the case here.

for the record, i am on a PC posting in this here mac forum. i only use it because the man says i have to. if only i had it my way at the work place... none the less, this issue affects us all. mac/pc/tdm/le, no one is safe. i will certianly talk with the PC folks about what plugs they are using. my boss is aware of all this and knows that my system drive could crash and we could be forced to buy new plugs any day. could be next week, but realistically we might run on it for a few years if we're lucky. i think i can bide my time. for now, i am just gonna keep track when i use waves plugs so i can narrow down a starter collection of plugs to suit my needs.

[Andre Knecht]

The Moral: …

Is there anything even remotely “moral” about WUP-ASS? Just checking…

[pmklein]

Class action sounds good to me. I'm in. It really is extortion!!

[lancejorton]

i'm still waiting to hear back from Waves. it may not be until after NAMM. i'm going to be patient for the answer until NAMM is over. i don't want to call a lawyer unless i have to.

i want to reiterate that they can charge maintenance fees for upgrades all they want. as long as people pay it and they are not hurting for cash, the practice will continue... granted their reputation has been destroyed forever.

however, they cannot force you to buy the upgrade to reauthorize software you already own a license to. imagine if Microsoft tried to make you buy Vista in advance if your computer crashed and you wanted to reinstall Windows XP on a new box. they would be blasted on CNN.com and some company would sue them and they would be forced to grant the 1 user license they agreed to. however, since the audio community is small and relatively poor, it's more difficult to get someone to sue.

anyway, more than the WUP issue, this would apply closer to the lost or stolen iLok issue. WUP is another issue in itself. i still haven't checked my original license agreement to see if it allows for annual fees. it's sad that Waves and other companies are getting so uptight and greedy about this that we have to start talking about legal issues. just be nice and helpful and we will say "thank you" and move on.

--
lance

[Ray Fabi]

Jeremy, everyone is entitled to their opinion... This is not ranting. But you may call it that if you wish... What Waves is doing is just not ethical. Who is complaining? Well, for the most part, customers, right? Now that says something. If my customers did, I sure would pay attention, because in the end, the customers will have the last word. Perhaps you are right, only 5% of Waves users are upset and will do something about it. Then the 5% gets to 10% and so so forth so on... BTW, who else in the industry charges you every year to use a product that you already paid? For support! Give me a break. And yes their product is good, not too many people argue that, but there are others. (I already hear your reply... so, here is my answer) yes, I will look at alternatives, because I find it insulting. Their bundles are OK, but many of their plugins are repackaged... EQ, Ren EQ, Linear Phase EQ... Personnaly, I'll stick with Filter Bank EQ's; way more DSP efficient, and certainly sounds as good, to my ears. Perhaps I'm out to lunch, but I've been producing music for more than 25 years, and my judgement is not all that bad, and perhaps Waves will not go out of business (which is not what I want) but they will lose a lot of business, and other companies will benefit from that. Ah, the circle of life...

Good luck on your L4 buy, even though you have an L1, but wait, the L2 sounds better, but wait, the L2 does not work on a mono track, so you still need the L1 (even though it does not sound as good as the L2) but wait, you also need to buy the mutlichannel version, oh yes the 360 package, that works in surround, great, but if you buy the 360 bundle, it does not work in stereo, nor in mono...

Get my point...

Ray

Jeremy's Quote below:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Waves anti-WUP rants have been routine for about 3 years now. Do you suppose that if there were this great mass exodus of customers, they'd have felt it by this point and adjusted their business practices?
Public forums are a great place to make noise, but there's only one place your voice will actually be heard by the company -- and obviously people are still buying, otherwise the business practices would have to change. The company is challenging all users to find a better product for a comparable cost.
Final thought: while everyone's been ranting for the past 3 years, I upgraded to L3, then to L3 multi, and received Tune LT and IR-L as part of the deal. I think I got fair value.
--------------------
--Jeremy
G5 2.7DP 6.5gig RAM; OS10.4.3; PT7.1cs2; HD3Accel

[Tony Shepperd]

Hey Ray and Others, I think I might have a solution for you.

Don't buy Wave plugins. It's just as simple as that.

They are not a monopoly. Go and buy that number of plugins from another company. It is amazing to me how time after time these post come up. You would think people would get it by now, if you want to keep and use Waves, you have to pay the WUP fee. It's just that simple. There are so many more things for us (people on the DUC) to be concerned with that this just seems to be a really low priority. Vote with your wallet. Get out of Waves completely. But stop kvetshing and get realistic about something that is clearly not going to go away.

[Groove Jungle]

Tony

Another viewpoint is that many people purchased Waves products and then Waves changed the rules, and their WUP policy is somewhat non-standard. . .

[Ken P]

Hey Ray and Others, I think I might have a solution for you.

Don't buy Wave plugins. It's just as simple as that.

They are not a monopoly. Go and buy that number of plugins from another company. It is amazing to me how time after time these post come up. You would think people would get it by now, if you want to keep and use Waves, you have to pay the WUP fee. It's just that simple. There are so many more things for us (people on the DUC) to be concerned with that this just seems to be a really low priority. Vote with your wallet. Get out of Waves completely. But stop kvetshing and get realistic about something that is clearly not going to go away.

i understand and appreciate what you are saying, but i believe what you are saying does not apply to me and why i started this post in the first place. i am talking about the simple fact that i bought a product 2 years ago, now all of a sudden i am being told i have to pay more to use it. simple as that. if i were going to buy waves now, no i would not, because of WUP. but that should be a grandfather clause or something. that WUP crap was not in the cards as a requirement for me to USE the software i bought. upgrade? yes, WUP was the answer. i do not want to upgrade. certainly not now after all the hastle i went thru...