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  #71  
Old 04-14-2010, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

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Originally Posted by Ray Fabi View Post

Congratulations Avid.
And condolences to those several hundred people who had to get let go from Digi and M-Audio over the last year in order to make this purchase a reality.
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  #72  
Old 04-14-2010, 07:51 PM
Dism Dism is offline
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

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Originally Posted by O.G. Killa View Post
And condolences to those several hundred people who had to get let go from Digi and M-Audio over the last year in order to make this purchase a reality.
And condolences to the several hundred thousand people who lost their jobs due to the bad economy and market.
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  #73  
Old 04-14-2010, 08:00 PM
Ray Fabi Ray Fabi is offline
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

Hi Derek, i agree. It's a sad time when you have to let go some of your staff... Do you think they deliberately fired people just for the fun of it? I don't know, but I don't think so.

One more note about the future collaboration between Digi / Eucon amd Nuendo, Logic and others; if Digi decided not to collaborate and continue close development with others, some other board manufacturer would jump in the bandwagon and try to get that share of the market!!! DAW's need serious professional controllers. You think Digi does not want that part of the market? There are people that love Nuendo, and regardless of what controller is being used, they'll continue their work it. What would be Digi's reasoning to spend millions on a company not to want to continue sales and to further develop new cutting edge products. It would simply not make sense. This IMHO was a business transaction that will be beneficial to a lot of people.

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  #74  
Old 04-15-2010, 11:41 AM
TimNielsen TimNielsen is offline
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

But if Avid follows their latest 'model', what will probably happen is, the Euphonix people who aren't let go in the merger, will be forced to focus their energy in the EuCon/ProTools integration, just as I'm pretty sure the programmers and developers at Avid will too. This will focus the already much too precious talent pool on a single minded endeavor, to the detriment of many others.

So sure, it's in their best interest to keep Euphonix an open console, develope Nuendo for it. But do you think it will be their 'priority'? It will fall WAY down the list. And at some point it will probably just not work well anymore, but Avid won't put the resources into it. Again, what is MORE in their best interest is to support Nuendo for a while, and then let that support die off, hoping that the people who have now invested in Euphonix hardware, but unable to run other platforms, will be forced into the ProTools world.

I mean, if anyone has been paying attention to the way the company has been run lately, how half-assed almost everything Digi/Avid is doing lately, has confidence that this will in any way be something 'smooth', I just don't think it will be.

So in addition to laying off a big percentage of thier staff, they take on another massive project to sidetrack fixing what they already make. Why? Beause there is simply not enough money in fixing ProTools to make it worthwhile.

And that's a corporate mentality for sure, but it's still a crappy way to run a company.

Again the whole paid structure 'bug fix' update is just another example of how little Digi gives a crap about doing the 'right' thing, only interested in doing the 'profitable' thing.
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  #75  
Old 04-15-2010, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

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Originally Posted by Ray Fabi View Post
Hi Derek, i agree. It's a sad time when you have to let go some of your staff... Do you think they deliberately fired people just for the fun of it? I don't know, but I don't think so.
It wasn't just for the fun of it. It was to stay afloat. but they sold the horse to save the carriage. They should have dissolved Avid as a brand and kept going with Digi and M-Audio. Why? Because Avid's product Media Composer is the loser of the bunch. It is the boat anchor that has been pulling the company into bankruptcy.

Avid over the past two years has been losing roughly $150mil every quarter. Digi over the last two years went from showing a profit every quarter to breaking even. And M-Audio has been the big bread winner for Avid for the last couple years, with profits over $100mil every quarter.

So, in order to save their stock prices and their face... they combined their revenue streams instead of keeping them separated as they have done in the past. But, with a company like Digi that makes as much money as it spends, you need to lay off a significant amount of employees to show a significant positive cash flow. M-Audio was already making a lot of money, but gutting that company of its staff increased the bottom line substantially... all of this is to offset/hide the financial eyesore Media Composer has become. So they gutted the divisions of the company that made money, so they could take that money and transfer it back onto their own books, temporarily inflating (or keeping afloat) the price of the stock. I can guarantee they are not buying Euphonix in an all cash deal. It'll be a stock trade for the majority of the money. Which, once the price of Avid falls again in the next 2 quarters or so, they won't be worth enough to buy a company like Euphonix. so they need to do it now while the getting is good.

Why will the stock fall in the next two quarters? Because they don't have any infrastructure to continue to make successful products. Look at what they've released in the last year? Pretty much nothing. I know of 5 products that were slated to be released this year... all of which were put on hold indefinitely in mid-development. Some are pretty much ready to go yet they are still holding on to them and not releasing them. With no new products to sell, they don't make any money... with a seriously depleted engineering and design staff... there isn't enough people to bring new products to market fast enough.

Avid's big solution to all this... outsourcing. But it hasn't been working for them the way they expected. You can't just send 10~20 years of code overseas and expect foreigner contractors to dive in, and create amazingly new and innovative products. Sure it looks like you can on paper when sitting as a proposal on a CEO's desk... but in reality it doesn't work that way. It's going to take them at least a year or two to pull themselves out of the hole they've dug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Fabi View Post
DAW's need serious professional controllers. You think Digi does not want that part of the market?
digi has owned that market for the last several years. It's called ICON. Nobody is buying Euphonix Consoles anymore because ICON makes so much more sense. Euphonix is mainly a post production console targeted at mixing film and TV. The ICON was modeled after the System 5. Yet it beats it hands down because of one huge fact, the fact that the ICON is tied to the DAW in every way.

Sure, having a system 5 that acts like an icon is going to be cool. But it's not needed. Avid was already burying Euphonix in the sales numbers. There is probably some technology that Avid wants from Euphonix to encorporate into Media Composer. And that is why the purchase happened.

I'm not saying that buying Euphonix was a bad thing. I'm just saying it was a sad decision on their part. They have thousands upon thousands of loyal customers who make a living using Protools every day. They gutted the infrastructure that supports Protools "to save money" and avoid collapse (because they can't sell their own product, Media Composer) right in the middle of one of the biggest overhauls of protools in the history of the program. Which basically left it with some serious inconsistencies in protools. Then, Instead of reinvesting BACK into Protools by hiring developers (hiring back some of the people they laid off and hiring new people) to finish the changeover from V7 to V8 and actually make it a great product again, once the collapse of the company was averted... they buy a new company.

This all comes from the general perception of the products within the companies. Avid has always looked at Protools as a support mechanism for Media Composer. While most of us look at it as a definitive product on its own. It's just like the struggle us sound people go through in post all the time. Picture Editors and Visual Effects people always think the picture is the most important... Sound editors and mixers always think the sound is the most important. Keeping Avid and Digi as separate divisions allowed Avid to stay focused on visual products and Digi to stay focused on auditory products. Now that they have merged, and the majority of people that are left are from Avid taking control of positions within digi... There is going to be an overall companywide shift to focusing on visuals. I hope I'm wrong about this. But it really looks like it is inevitable. Protools will be an after though... a bullet point on the sales pitch to post houses Avid is trying to convince to switch from FCP to Media Composer.

Listen, I know a lot about the new products and new ideas that Avid has/had coming, and they are great. And I know how some of the "old guard" that left digi were against some of these new ideas, and it's good to get some fresh blood in their to keep moving forward. But now, I don't see that happening. At least not as quickly as I was expecting.
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  #76  
Old 04-15-2010, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

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Originally Posted by TimNielsen View Post
But if Avid follows their latest 'model', what will probably happen is, the Euphonix people who aren't let go in the merger, will be forced to focus their energy in the EuCon/ProTools integration, just as I'm pretty sure the programmers and developers at Avid will too. This will focus the already much too precious talent pool on a single minded endeavor, to the detriment of many others.

So sure, it's in their best interest to keep Euphonix an open console, develope Nuendo for it. But do you think it will be their 'priority'? It will fall WAY down the list. And at some point it will probably just not work well anymore, but Avid won't put the resources into it. Again, what is MORE in their best interest is to support Nuendo for a while, and then let that support die off, hoping that the people who have now invested in Euphonix hardware, but unable to run other platforms, will be forced into the ProTools world.

I mean, if anyone has been paying attention to the way the company has been run lately, how half-assed almost everything Digi/Avid is doing lately, has confidence that this will in any way be something 'smooth', I just don't think it will be.

So in addition to laying off a big percentage of thier staff, they take on another massive project to sidetrack fixing what they already make. Why? Beause there is simply not enough money in fixing ProTools to make it worthwhile.

And that's a corporate mentality for sure, but it's still a crappy way to run a company.

Again the whole paid structure 'bug fix' update is just another example of how little Digi gives a crap about doing the 'right' thing, only interested in doing the 'profitable' thing.
Actually I agree with this...but substitute in Media Composer for Protools. I think the big thing about Euphonix for Avid was that their MC Color uses EuCon and works with FCP. The big push will be getting media composer to support Eucon. After all, Avid considers Media Composer to be their flagship product, not Pro Tools.
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  #77  
Old 04-15-2010, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

And think about this on a long term scope. Now that you've consolidated all your resources... why would you continue to develop two separate products? Why try to continue refining something like Video Satellite to link a Media composer system and a PT system when you could just combine them into one product?

There are some things in Media Composer certain post people have been asking for in PT for years (like the way Media Composer handles bins, for example...).

It just makes more sense for them, after gutting the development staff... to put everything on hold and focus on combining everything into one modular product. You get HD, Nitris DX, Mojo, 003's, color correction, layback, No more OMF, etc, etc, etc all in one program. Just like we move projects between HD and LE... we could move a project file between a Media Composer Audio setup and a Media Composer video setup... or a mobile media composer setup using an Mbox and/or Mojo, to a Large Media Composer station with HD cards for Audio Processing and a Nitris DX for video processing. There is no OMF's needing to be exchanged, no transcoding video for audio editing/dubbing, everything (audio and video) is contained in one project and works on a multitude of hardware options from Avid 2626's to Avid 192 IOs to Avid MBox micros to Avid System5's and Avid MC Mix controllers... even the built in audio and video hardware in a computer...
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  #78  
Old 04-18-2010, 10:33 PM
bluesfrequency bluesfrequency is offline
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

All this bickering is just nonsense to me. Company's do what in their best interest and they try to make a good product will sell and most people will enjoy using. This inherently will make some people very happy and satisfied with their products, and leave others very unsatisfied. Ya can't please everybody, it's just not possible.

As for me, I've been using PT 8 since it came out. First on LE and now HD at a major motion picture studio. I run sessions with hundreds of tracks, hundreds of plugins, including multiple instantiations of Altiverb, TL Space and the like. And guess what? It's freakin' rock solid. Not to say I've NEVER had a problem, there's the random crash here and there, a jerky QT that needs to be converted to another codec, or some other hiccup here and there. It's all about knowing what you have to work with and using strategies to use them to their fullest extent. Sure it doesn't have ALL the features that everyone wants, bins were awesome in Audio Vision, but you couldn't mix with that thing! And of course the summing in a nearly million dollar console like a Neve DFC or Euphonix System 5 are going to sound better than mixing in the box, but it BETTER sound better for that kind of scratch!

With brings me to my next point. Merge the ICON with a Euphonix System 5.....holy crapballs would that be awesome!! Imagine an Icon with TFT displays that show EQ, Dynamics, meters, waveforms and panning for every channel. Maybe even an option that will let you toggle a screen or two that will show you the PT timeline? Plugins will pop up right above the channel strip that you are working on? Dedicated EQ and Dynamics DSP on the console that uses no system resources? Floating Point DSP digital summing that sounds amazing? Heaven, absolute heaven for film and TV mixers. Make a large format console as a substitute or upgrade for the Icon and a smaller D-command like console for smaller studios. No these aren't you project studio consoles, but man I'm hoping for something like this, and it makes sense that that is where Avid and Euphonix are heading.

Take it or leave it, that's my 2 cents.
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  #79  
Old 04-18-2010, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Avid buys Euphonix

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Originally Posted by lafilmsound View Post
hmmmm avid saying they are coming out with new interesting cool awesome stuff? wow I've never heard this speak from them before so exciting im ringing my sweaty palms...how many times do they need to cry wolf before we stop believing. Euphonix on the other hand is the most cutting edge console company out there-lets hope they don't put the digi folks in charge of creative or or technology decisions.
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  #80  
Old 07-27-2010, 02:05 AM
mrmole mrmole is offline
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Angry Re: Avid buys Euphonix

I own a euphonix Cs2000 and for years I have been totally impressed with the company's support whenever I had any issues/questions. The platform is very well supported, and I was outfitted with totally concise literature from owner's manuals to schematics etc.
I also used to own a M-Audio powered subwoofer that developed a crossover problem about 10 months ago. I am a service tech by trade (and yes, I do service the Euphonix) and could repair the subwoofer for minimal cost but I require a schematic in order to execute the repair. After numerous attempts to obtain a schematic from M-audio, both directly and through dealers, i was told that the ONLY way to have the unit serviced was to ship it halfway accross Canada to Montreal where their service depot is located, and that the absolutely would NOT supply a schematic, since this is of a "proprietary" nature. this would end up costing me well over $200 to repair what is likely a failed $2 component! I will NEVER purchase another product from these dicks, since their corporate policies are simply a load of BS! I sincerely hope that the same thing doesn't happen with Euphonix, but M-Audio support SUCKS!!! I now have a dead subwoofer taking up space in my service shop, and have since purchased a replacement product from a competitor...which is really too bad, because the M-audio sub sounded better....but I won't throw another dime their way!
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