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  #51  
Old 02-10-2008, 05:45 PM
Ray Fabi Ray Fabi is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

Hi, my 2 cents... I love Pro Tools like most of us real PT users and a good share of the industry thinks like I do; proof of the pudding Digi has a huge part of the market! If someone wants to use something else like Nuendo, please be my guest, if it works for you. As far as I'm concerned, PT is just what I need, it is rock solid, has great work flow, great plugins, is very reliable, and above all is a standard in the industry! That being said, I need a replacement for my Pro Control and edit pack, and I'm not crazy about the ICON for a number of reasons. One of them being it's really bulky, deep and only has 6 rotary encoders... too much button pushing to get where I want to go! It forces me to work in a way i don't really want to! The Euphonix MC with fader packs has 8 rotary encoders, looks and feels more like a "regular" console, and the center section has great features and is not not as bulky as the ICON. Now I'm not bashing the ICON, but why is Digi resisting the EUCON implementation? There are people out there who will always buy ICON boards because it adds specific functions, and for tweakers and post, and for people who like the concept of focus channels, it's really good. Digi should not be afraid of competing with Euphonix if their product is comparable, right? Now, for music, I don't believe the ICON is that good. I like a conventional board layout, 8 knobs for EQ, 8 of them all on the same strip without having to go to another page, and the Euphonix translates better IMHO. Now, personally, software is really important, and I don't want to switch to another application, but also being a Logic user (for MIDI), I'd like the Euphonix because it would give me control over more than just Pro Tools, and that's a bonus. The question i'm asking is why not let Digi and Euphonix work out a "licensing" deal (like Nuendo already does with EUCON) where every time you buy a Euphonix to control PT, there is a "conversion hardware box" to connect Digi to EUCON code, and a 2 or 3 thousand fee that goes to Digi. Digi would make a cut, loyal PT users would continue using Pro Tools but with the option of Euphonix as a controller if they should decide not to buy an ICON! Digi would still make "money" from the licensing deal! Worth considering!!!

Perhaps, yes Digi might lose some ICON sales, but imagine how many people would consider buying PT, if they could control it with something else than the ICON? Imagine all Nuendo and Euphonix owners, who up to now could not control PT from their existing board, don't you think they would not seriously consider purchasing a PT setup if they could just "add" it to their existing setups using EUCON? Imagine the possibilities! Digi would probably gain as much as they would lose in "sales", but would gain so much more respect, would make their client base happy and perhaps could even contribute to the EUCON protocol to make it even better!!! I know for a fact that a number of people don't want to work with the ICON, one being myself... Sorry! It is my belief that certain film mixers (re-recording engineers amongst others) who mainly use faders, mute / solo switches, EQ's and dynamics, at the mixes, they don't care all that much about all the bells and whistles of workstations, they could not care less about what DAW they are working with, they want to extend their hands push some familiar placed buttons, they use their ears, and often, their tech guys or their assistants have already tweaked and prepared the stems and premixes, so all they need is a good large format board, like the ones they are used to working with... Those mixers might switch from PT to something else if they ultimately don't get the feel they want from the ICON, and "that" should be a concern for Digi! It may be a case of software versus hardware controllers.

Imagine the "bad case scenario" for Digi: there is no doubt some people will buy the Euphonix because their main DAW is simply not PT; it may be Nuendo, Pyramix or Logic, and of course, they may also have PT as a dubber, or layback machine, or simply to import / export PT sessions, now anybody who would work on the Euphonix, or assist at the session would clearly come to the conclusion that "Nuendo, Pyramix and Logic are far better than PT, it has a better workflow, it works better, just look at the way it integrates with this board", "why are we working with PT?"... "Why can't we do this with PT?", "I don't care that it is using HUI protocol", "I have a mixing board, with lots of knobs and buttons, I want to be able to use them, regardless of the DAW" ... Do you honestly think these people will go out and buy an Icon to control PT because they want a great workflow? No, they'll slowly migrate and do more and more work "outside" of PT, and more and more with the other DAW... Not good, and it may just happen. As for myself, I may just dive with the Euphonix, and, eventually do more and more work with Logic... simply because, now, there is a great solution, a great controller / mixing board that allows Logic (and all others but PT) to be a well controlled DAW! Why can't PT also have that luxury?

A dream come true would be the best software, and my vote absolutely goes 100% to Pro Tools, with the best adapted music mixer / board / controller, and this time my vote goes to Euphonix... It's the best of both worlds. That would simply be amazing!

I'm voicing my opinion, because i think quite a few PT users feel the same, and I hope this is of help to both users and Digi.

OK, that may have been a dollars worth ;-)

Thanx

Ray (a very loyal PT HD user)
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  #52  
Old 02-11-2008, 01:04 AM
manis manis is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

could protools become a dinosaur??
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  #53  
Old 02-11-2008, 12:31 PM
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minister minister is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

Quote:
The kicker is that you can use the same control surface with a Euphonix DSP core for large format mixing at a reasonable price if you want to. Plus, if I may be so bold, Protools does not offer MADI, an inexpensive and much easier to set up way of getting your audio out and in to a console. I mean, what the hell does Harrison have MADI inputs for ? Certainly not for Digihardware, as you need converter strapped in front of them.
What about the SSL XLogic Delta? Hook it up to your PT cards and it looks like 4 192's (albeit digital only)

SSL DELTA LINK
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  #54  
Old 02-12-2008, 02:44 PM
sleadley sleadley is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

Quote:
Quote:
The kicker is that you can use the same control surface with a Euphonix DSP core for large format mixing at a reasonable price if you want to. Plus, if I may be so bold, Protools does not offer MADI, an inexpensive and much easier to set up way of getting your audio out and in to a console. I mean, what the hell does Harrison have MADI inputs for ? Certainly not for Digihardware, as you need converter strapped in front of them.
What about the SSL XLogic Delta? Hook it up to your PT cards and it looks like 4 192's (albeit digital only)

SSL DELTA LINK
The good part is that this does work well. I have one of these for Film work. More and more dub stages here in OZ are using Madi compatible consoles, so it is important that we can easily get audio into the console and the SSL box does this very well.
As Digi is pushing the ITB mixing I doubt they will adopt MADI (this is probably the way all mixing will go in the future anyway.) But as an interim measure it is very cost effective and useful. But if you need A/D converters then you still need 192's etc.
S.
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  #55  
Old 02-13-2008, 01:08 AM
manis manis is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

protools was probably designed before any of this technology was around.., maybe not.., but my guess is if it had been around then there would have been a better hardware interface.., or whatever it is you professionals are wanting.., i think its fair to say the people t at digi hear this.., and probably there is little they can do except design PT from he ground up and keep the same interface. In which case we would have to buy PT all over again.., and then the technology would surpass it again sometime.., maybe things are moving so fast atm that it better digi watch for another 12 months or so to see how the technology and the politics surrounding it goes??

should we start a thread of what PT can do above the others.., or just get on mixing.., or get on buying a different app. ??

i keep a number of high end apps because they all have things the others cant do.., and im no where near the standard of the people here.., just a lowly honours student fresh out of school, with a good rep but who cant even get an attachment..,and so now im at CGI and VFX college until i get a job somewhere.., though i still get student work.., and probably always will.
\
M:)
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  #56  
Old 02-13-2008, 10:20 AM
Starcrash Starcrash is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

Manis,

My friend. I love you, but step away from the keyboard.

You're keeeeling meee.



A wise man once told me I should take the cotton out of my ears and put it into my mouth until I have actual experience to share. This is a valuable and informative thread that is dealing with a very specific topic. Let's not clutter it up with broad opinion-based Digi discussion.

Maybe start a new thread?

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  #57  
Old 02-13-2008, 10:55 AM
theblasters theblasters is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

bump
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  #58  
Old 02-13-2008, 12:47 PM
nuenemy nuenemy is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

i STRONGLY agree with most of the posters here - inflexibility and closed architecture will eventually kill PT - it's already doing it with avid (imho)

not that they should take on every 3rd party player - but to shut out long standing, proven systems is only going to help the alternatives to eventually overtake the market

digidesign sold a LOT of PTs on the back of the Mackie, Apogee and a few other (and vice versa) - and to not allow continued support with updated and enhanced features/products will ultimately be self defeating

Euphonix is hardly a newbie either - the quick embrace of the other players signals opens a big playing field & along with other developments (apogee's new stuff, the streamlining & FCP integration of LOGIC etc.), is seriously going to jeopardize and erode the PT stronghold

i WILL NOT pop for a digidesign control system - it simply doesn't work for my space - and frankly, i think the design is clunky & less than elegant

PLUS i can't use it with ANYTHING ELSE (i compose on DP5 & in Reason)

i'd rather deal with an outdated HUI

...until something better comes along

you can't beat the support and assurance of the digidesign foundation - the software is pretty much bulletproof, straightforward, elegant and sensible - but FORCING the hardware will only go so far when better designed, more cost-effective options are putting the old school out of business


-mg
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  #59  
Old 02-13-2008, 01:50 PM
manis manis is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

wise men said many things my friend..,

listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, for they too have their story.., ect

sure ill stay away

M:)
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  #60  
Old 02-13-2008, 11:44 PM
CR Postmixer CR Postmixer is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

That, Ray, was at least a dollars worth. You have all made great points. Both pro and con. (Seems like the pro's are ahead a little).
We all deal with noise for a living so keep making it here! ( hear ) This has been a good post so far so let's keep it real. No need for bashing ( well maybe a little ) but let's really let Digi know that we need this! Over 2000 views! Let's get 2000 replies
( not counting mine)!
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