So what's the chances of another Expansion pack in the future

[Hotcrazyfruit]

Or none of those options(because in my opinion, they are too... business-ey and would be a cold move) , and simply make it another 100 dollars and add different amps and effects. That way, a new user can chose between expansion packs, maybe they will find one suits their playing style better. Its better to offer versatility than have frustrated customers being forced to shell out money to buy both packs when they only need one or the other.

Nick

[mikefont]

I kinda hope that for the next release that they come out with more of a firmware update with NO new amp/FX models just yet, and here's why....

There are a bunch of new features that have been requested that I think they could implement allot faster if they didn't have to worry about including any new amp models. They mentioned that they ran out of time on the last ERXP to include some of the things that they were working on, so they should have had time to get them completed by now

Stand alone GUI
FX Spillover
Allowing 3rd party IR's
More noise gate controls
Separating the amp & cabinet blocks

These are mostly things that they already have in the 11R that just requires some tweaking I would think, without having to worry with modeling anything new.

I would imagine that modeling just 1 amp is VERY time consuming to capture all of the nuances that it entails, not to mention if they are going to model the accompanying speaker cabinet to go along with it. And if they bother to model an amp, they are gonna do it right and not just rehash something just to say that they put out something new. They have demonstrated that they ARE all about the quality of what they put out, even if it does fly in the face of what you would THINK that the corporate 'suits' would try dictate (which is to get more QUANTITY out faster to earn more money, regardless of QUALITY).
Now if modeling one amp is very time consuming, what if they want to include 5 or 6 new amps? Now I'm betting that would take a good YEAR or so to implement.

If they did a small update addressing some of these possibly easier to accomplish feature requests without worrying about modeling anything new, then could they release this next update in a short time frame? I would think so IMO.
Now do I want new amp models to come out? Sure I do! But if they chose to never release another amp model, then I already have plenty of amps to chose from myself as it is, and I am quite happy with the variety that we already have...but I do want more models for sure! Oh, and some more FX too, like PITCH SHIFTING


.

[moff]

Originally Posted by sunburst79

I'm actually quite pleased with the value of the expansion pack. I think it really added a lot of versatility.

Absolutely it did - I wasn't bashing it at all. Just saying they'd be smarter to wait until sales of that one die off before releasing another expansion pack.

The idea of a being able to choose which pack(s) you want is good, but again, if they're smart, they'll package the packs like the cable companies package their channel packs: Split the most popular\most requested features and models between the two expansion packs, so you'll have to buy both packs just to get the two things you really want (the same way the cable company makes you buy 2 channel packs with 20 crap channels each in order to get the two good HD channels you really want).

Seriously, Digidesign\Avid is a BUSINESS, whose sole purpose is to make money. The products they produce are simply a means to that end. While there are some very good and dedicated people in the product departments, the corporate office doesn't care whether they give us "warm and fuzzies" when they do something; they are about making profits (not that that's a bad thing, we just need to understand that, and not pretend that they're some benevolent "open source" developer). They will do whatever will "increase profits and maximize stockholder value". If that means making one ERXP a presrequisite for the other, so be it. It's about selling units of their products - 11R, ERXP and any future expansions. Business-y and cold or not, that's the way it is.

[Deny]

I don't think Avid will offer "a la carte" ERXPs, because the ERXP is actually one and the same with the 11R Firmware. If firmware and expansion packs were loaded in separate areas that would make sense, but they're not. And the cost of maintaining a bunch of different firmware versions isn't cheap, meaning it's probably not a smart business practice, and in fact I doubt it would even fit the company's budget for the 11R product development.

[Sofus]

interesting perspectives. how much do you guys think the competition influence avid? just looking at the new firmware from line6, 3-4 of the amp models really came to life with that one. also the latest axe-fx update addressed many issues the users had.

i would love to see a intelligent harmonizer in the 11r, i don't need anything fancy, the digitech harmony man does everything i need. a couple of d style amps and a wreck would be cool too. an update on the od's with some new models and ability to mix and match cabs and 3rd party cabs i think is necessary to keep up with the competition.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by Sofus

interesting perspectives. how much do you guys think the competition influence avid? just looking at the new firmware from line6, 3-4 of the amp models really came to life with that one. also the latest axe-fx update addressed many issues the users had.

The competition definitely influences Avid - it would be quite naive to think otherwise. But the competition is also infuenced by Avid.

Dual DSP's, USB connectivity, re-amping, impedance circuitry all being built into the Axe FX II, hmmm, where could those ideas have come from I wonder . And why do you think it was rushed into the marketplace, late last year the High Priest was saying that DSP technology had not moved substanially forward enough to necessitate a new machine - along comes ERXP and lo and behold a couple of months later the countdown began. Just like Avid waited for the dust to settle from the Line6 HD units - apparently timing is everything . And the HD units just got an update with 5 amp controls- called Deep Editing Parameters - can you say Fractal .

Avid isn't really in direct competition with the Fractal or Line6 devices, each has tried to carve out their own niche. But with the marketplace for these devices starting to contract sharply you have to keep an eye on what the other companies are doing.

I fully expect a reply from Avid to Fractal latest device, but, not yet, not for at least several months, Fractal still hasn't released it's latest attempt yet - or maybe it has, I really gave up caring about a month ago .

[mikefont]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

I fully expect a reply from Avid to Fractal latest device, but, not yet, not for at least several months, Fractal still hasn't released it's latest attempt yet - or maybe it has, I really gave up caring about a month ago .

LOL...touche bro! Funny how that ERXP release threw a little water on that AxeFX gas, aint it!

.

[sunburst79]

Originally Posted by mikefont

I kinda hope that for the next release that they come out with more of a firmware update with NO new amp/FX models just yet, and here's why....

There are a bunch of new features that have been requested that I think they could implement allot faster if they didn't have to worry about including any new amp models. They mentioned that they ran out of time on the last ERXP to include some of the things that they were working on, so they should have had time to get them completed by now

Stand alone GUI
FX Spillover
Allowing 3rd party IR's
More noise gate controls
Separating the amp & cabinet blocks

These are mostly things that they already have in the 11R that just requires some tweaking I would think, without having to worry with modeling anything new.

I would imagine that modeling just 1 amp is VERY time consuming to capture all of the nuances that it entails, not to mention if they are going to model the accompanying speaker cabinet to go along with it. And if they bother to model an amp, they are gonna do it right and not just rehash something just to say that they put out something new. They have demonstrated that they ARE all about the quality of what they put out, even if it does fly in the face of what you would THINK that the corporate 'suits' would try dictate (which is to get more QUANTITY out faster to earn more money, regardless of QUALITY).
Now if modeling one amp is very time consuming, what if they want to include 5 or 6 new amps? Now I'm betting that would take a good YEAR or so to implement.

If they did a small update addressing some of these possibly easier to accomplish feature requests without worrying about modeling anything new, then could they release this next update in a short time frame? I would think so IMO.
Now do I want new amp models to come out? Sure I do! But if they chose to never release another amp model, then I already have plenty of amps to chose from myself as it is, and I am quite happy with the variety that we already have...but I do want more models for sure! Oh, and some more FX too, like PITCH SHIFTING


.

Originally Posted by Deny

I don't think Avid will offer "a la carte" ERXPs, because the ERXP is actually one and the same with the 11R Firmware. If firmware and expansion packs were loaded in separate areas that would make sense, but they're not. And the cost of maintaining a bunch of different firmware versions isn't cheap, meaning it's probably not a smart business practice, and in fact I doubt it would even fit the company's budget for the 11R product development.

I very much agree with mike on the need for these features. It would add a tremendous amount of versatility. I would rather see EXRPII include more functionality. Even if the DSP in the 11R is not particularly suited for harmonizing or pitch shifting they could open this up to plug ins by adding a couple of "virtual inserts" that would function like effects loops. Any third part cabinet IR is going to need to function like this I assume. Although it might be possible to upload IRs to the units. Which from a latency stand point is where you want that code.

If you could upload plugs natively coded to 11Rs native DSP it would open the door for some one like Eventide to offer some 11R plugs. THAT would be cool. H949, H3000 Anyone?

Since future firmware updates are going to be inclusive of previous updates they are going to have to have a tiered upgrade plan. Otherwise the will start needing multiple firmware revisions and that's going to get messy quick. So I'm thinking thinking some thing ERXPII 199.00. Includes all ERXP updates. ERXPII upgrade price for owners of ERXP is discounted to 99.00. This keeps the firmware as simple as possible. The disadvantage is that as they add features the the price of the Expansion Packs goes up for those not already invested in them. Which is somewhat unattractive from a marketing view point. An advantage to the tiered FW update plan is they could do something fun like throw in an exclusive amp or effect for the owners of both FW updates. If FW 2.01 is the ERXP and FW 2.03 is the EXRPII. Than FW 2.05 could be EXRP + EXRPII plus a little DSP swag. It will be interesting to see if they go with tiered pricing or tiered firmware.

Another viable option would be to incorperate the EXRP into the standard FW down the road. This is a kinda "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" option. Add it and you add value and pull sales into the Avid camp at the risk of alienating those that purchased the orginal expansion pack. Of course new buyers are spending 899.00 to get those models.


I don't see them doing the Ala Carte approach but could see an interim update of a cool amp or two at a discounted price. E.G. upgrade to FW 2.04 for 29.99 to get some cool amp thats just so cool they want to release it without having to wait for another whole expansion pack.

They have some marketing options and If they wanted they could make it fun and generate a buzz while generating cash flow.


Market. There is competition and 11R does an extremely good job of servicing its niche. The killer app in this case is its Pro Tools integration. They need to keep abreast of market trends

I think that Chris and the Chimp did a great job with the EXRP and trust that they will spent their development hours wisely on what ever is coming next.

Oh and in addition to mike fonts list I will add update the plug in already! The combination of the 11R and the plug is very fast work flow.

[moff]

Mike's list:

Originally Posted by mikefont

I kinda hope that for the next release that they come out with more of a firmware update with NO new amp/FX models just yet, and here's why....

There are a bunch of new features that have been requested that I think they could implement allot faster if they didn't have to worry about including any new amp models. They mentioned that they ran out of time on the last ERXP to include some of the things that they were working on, so they should have had time to get them completed by now

Stand alone GUI
FX Spillover
Allowing 3rd party IR's
More noise gate controls
Separating the amp & cabinet blocks

They're all great ideas and would be good to have, but I wouldn't pay for that update. That list is a firmware revision\maintenance update, not an an "Expansion". I don't pay for updates or feature enhancements for M$ software or Mac OS, and I won't pay for them on the 11R.

Now, if they combined that list with a few new amp/cab/fx/mic models, then it would be worth my money.

[Random Dude]

Based on how long the 11R has been out the fact that there have been a total of 1 patch, 1 expansion pack (along with a patch for that) doesn't lead me to believe that there would be a lot of issues managing multiple packages since they'd probably be only a couple at most before it reaches end of life cycle.

But I do agree with moff 100% on differentiating between maintenance/patches and additional features/models. Making it work correctly or even better isn't the same as enhancing or expanding.