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  #101  
Old 02-02-2015, 09:58 PM
Scott Stillwell's Avatar
Scott Stillwell Scott Stillwell is offline
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

Okay, I've run into this and (apparently) have a 100% repeatable occurrence - with a standard Pro Tools demo project. This ONLY happens with the PT11 demo "Kelly Malone - Earth and Stars". I can load the PT9 and PT10 demos with no errors, but this is 100% repeatable and shows the behavior mentioned earlier in this thread about CPU usage going high on one core/thread only.

Repro:
  • Start Pro Tools 11
  • Open the PT11 demo project "Kelly Malone - Earth and Stars".
  • Open the System Usage window.
  • Wait. Within 20 seconds or so one core (it always seems to be thread 4 for me) starts climbing, reaching about 45% in another 5-10 seconds or so. It will hover there indefinitely.
  • Move the playback cursor to marker C4
  • Begin playback. You may get a -9173 error at this point. Ignore and playback again. The core that was running high will drop down to the level of the other cores.
  • Playback to end and let it continue beyond. Shortly after everything is silent, the "naughty" core will start climbing again and this time will climb until you get a -9173 and CPU use goes red. At this point that core will continue to stay high and swing widely - with the overall CPU going red frequently. You will NOT be able to start playback after this, as you will always get a -9173 error. You must either close the session and reopen this or another session, or quit Pro Tools.

Mid-2012 Quad-Core Mac Pro 3.2 GHz 16 GB RAM.
Projects on separate (non-System) disk.
10.9.5
11.3.0
Presonus 1818VSL
32-sample buffer (I can repro with any buffer size - doesn't seem to be related - it just makes me giggle to be able to run at 32).

Hopefully this helps - especially if anyone else can repro with the same project.

Scott
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  #102  
Old 02-02-2015, 11:23 PM
bashville bashville is offline
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelpry View Post
We have to hope that Avid has the solution, but they haven't said so. Some people are attempting to blame plugins, hard drives, etc. etc., and it's certainly possible they are an influence.

But ...
1) I have the problem on my studio computer, not my home computer or laptop, so it may be specific to certain computer specs ... but my studio computer is on the approved list,
2) The software installation, apps, plugins, OS etc is pretty much identical on them all,
Plus ... in my opinion ... while plugins and hard drives may be an 'influence', they can hardly be expected to take full blame, because ...

3) I'm using disc cache, with 100% of the audio data in cache, so ONLY the BTD audio is being written, and the same drive has no problems recording 24 tracks of audio simultaneously, and recording overdubs while playing back 30-40 simultaneously playing tracks of already recorded audio, (with no disc cache)
4) I also get it occasionally, on the same computer, during playback, not just during real time bounce to disc,
5) The same computer running the same plugins and Pro Tools 10 does not have this problem at all, ever,
6) Other formats of those very same plugins, AU and VST, generate no problems at all in Logic and Cubase, so either ...
a) the plugin programmers have created errors only in the AAX version, or
b) there is some issue with the AAX format itself, or
c) there is some issue with Pro Tools 11 itself.

All in all, I would suggest that, even if a computer, drive or plugin, or combination of all three, is an adverse influence, the fact that none of these issues show up in other DAWs, or even Pro Tools 10, on the same computer suggests to me that Pro Tools coders may need to up their game in terms of getting Pro Tools 11 to function stably and cope with what is thrown at it. People have reported this problem with tunes comprising a couple of tracks with no plugins loaded!

If Avid wishes to retreat into 'high end', where dedicated computers running only Pro Tools and stock plugins with Avid interfaces is the route to reliability, then so be it, but retreat it will most definitely be.
Doesn't #3 assume that disc cache is storing processed audio (post plugs) when it isn't (is it)?

Also I thought that was a big difference with the new audio engine, that they had changed the way PT accessed the multi-cores, so that yes there's going to be a difference between 10 and 11. So number 5 maybe doesn't apply, either?
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  #103  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:38 AM
bashville bashville is offline
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

and OK another thing, why does the error message suggest that "a higher H/W buffer size may prevent this problem" (or something like that)?

I thought this new H/W buffer size only applied to the input buffer. Why should it affect issues with any playback tracks? Has that error message even been updated for the new Avid audio engine? Or is it old language?
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  #104  
Old 02-03-2015, 03:48 AM
ShadeTek ShadeTek is offline
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

Can I point out that 917x errors are not happening on Macs alone. I have two Z420s running W7, PT 11.2.2 with HDX and BM 4K video cards and they have been giving 9171,2 and 3 errors since they arrived a year ago. Nobody seems to be able to fix this issue and it is completely random. It can go all week without an error and then you can get 3 days of hell. No amount of tweaks has sorted this and it is up to Avid to sort out as fast as possible.
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  #105  
Old 02-03-2015, 08:51 AM
DAWgEAR's Avatar
DAWgEAR DAWgEAR is online now
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeTek View Post
Can I point out that 917x errors are not happening on Macs alone. I have two Z420s running W7, PT 11.2.2 with HDX and BM 4K video cards and they have been giving 9171,2 and 3 errors since they arrived a year ago. Nobody seems to be able to fix this issue and it is completely random. It can go all week without an error and then you can get 3 days of hell. No amount of tweaks has sorted this and it is up to Avid to sort out as fast as possible.
I experience this too on Windows 8.1. I have had big sessions where real time BTD works with no issues and then a small project with no plugins will produce the error during real time BTD.
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  #106  
Old 02-03-2015, 09:08 AM
Scott Stillwell's Avatar
Scott Stillwell Scott Stillwell is offline
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Posts: 75
Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Stillwell View Post
Repro:
  • Start Pro Tools 11
  • Open the PT11 demo project "Kelly Malone - Earth and Stars".
  • Open the System Usage window.
  • Wait. Within 20 seconds or so one core (it always seems to be thread 4 for me) starts climbing, reaching about 45% in another 5-10 seconds or so. It will hover there indefinitely.
  • Move the playback cursor to marker C4
  • Begin playback. You may get a -9173 error at this point. Ignore and playback again. The core that was running high will drop down to the level of the other cores.
  • Playback to end and let it continue beyond. Shortly after everything is silent, the "naughty" core will start climbing again and this time will climb until you get a -9173 and CPU use goes red. At this point that core will continue to stay high and swing widely - with the overall CPU going red frequently. You will NOT be able to start playback after this, as you will always get a -9173 error. You must either close the session and reopen this or another session, or quit Pro Tools.
Update - you can reproduce it a different way as well...
  • Start Pro Tools 11
  • Open the PT11 demo project "Kelly Malone - Earth and Stars".
  • Open the System Usage window.
  • Wait. Within 20 seconds or so one core (it always seems to be thread 4 for me) starts climbing, reaching about 45% in another 5-10 seconds or so. It will hover there indefinitely.
  • Move the playback cursor to marker C4
  • Begin playback. You may get a -9173 error at this point. Acknowledge the error, but ignore it and wait. The core that was running high will drop down to the level of the other cores.
  • Continue to wait. Within another 20 seconds or so, the "naughty" core will start climbing again and this time will climb until CPU use goes red. At this point that core will continue to stay high and swing widely - with the overall CPU going red frequently. You will NOT be able to start playback after this, as you will always get a -6101 error. You must either close the session and reopen this or another session, or quit Pro Tools.

Changing buffer size all the way up to 1024 doesn't make any difference.

Scott
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  #107  
Old 02-03-2015, 03:57 PM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by bashville View Post
Doesn't #3 assume that disc cache is storing processed audio (post plugs) when it isn't (is it)?

Also I thought that was a big difference with the new audio engine, that they had changed the way PT accessed the multi-cores, so that yes there's going to be a difference between 10 and 11. So number 5 maybe doesn't apply, either?
With disc cache on, the audio is read from cache, not the drive, then processed.

So in a bounce to disc with disc cache on, the only data involving the hard drive is the bounce beng written. So my point 3 is that I can happily record 24 tracks of audio, or record overdubs while 30-40 tracks play already recorded data back.

The point is to make clear that we can eliminate the problem being related to writing bounce to disc data to disc.

As for point 5, I've deleted RTAS dpm versions where the AAX version works in both PT10 and PT11. A few of my plugins are AAX only in PT11 because the manufacturer has not written PT10 compatible AAX lugins.

More to the point though, PT11 is supposed to be more efficient due to the complete 64bit rewrite and the sole use of 64bit AAX plugins.

Avid publicly stated it will even gring new life into older computers, because the same computer will be able to do more in PT11 than PT10, be ause of hose coding improvements.

So point 5 illustrats that this, in fact, is not proving to be the case.

Both point are, therefore, in my opinion, entirely relevant.
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Mac Pro 2009 with 2010 firmware, 12-Core 3.46ghz, 64gb RAM & working Thunderbolt, OS 10.14.6 and Windows 10
Macbook Pro 2011 17", 2.2ghz i7, 16gb RAM OS 10.12.6
Digi 003 Console, Focusrite OctopreLE and MOTU Traveler for extra analog-ADAT conversion, UAD Apollo Quad Silver with Thunderbolt card, Apollo x4 and pci-e Octo, Adam A77X monitors.
Pro Tools 2020.3, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 10.5, Wavelab Pro 10, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, Mainstage 3.
Various apps, soft synths, FX plugins.
Plenty of hardware synths, rack gear, microphones etc.
And then there's the studio ;-)
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  #108  
Old 02-03-2015, 04:01 PM
nigelpry's Avatar
nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeTek View Post
Can I point out that 917x errors are not happening on Macs alone. I have two Z420s running W7, PT 11.2.2 with HDX and BM 4K video cards and they have been giving 9171,2 and 3 errors since they arrived a year ago. Nobody seems to be able to fix this issue and it is completely random. It can go all week without an error and then you can get 3 days of hell. No amount of tweaks has sorted this and it is up to Avid to sort out as fast as possible.
Exactly my experienc on mac too.

Plus not just during real time bounce to disc, sometimes its just on straigh playback too. And if it happens on playback, every time to clear the error message and press play again, it happens instantly.

In this case, find the only way to clear it is a complete computer reboot. Simply closing and reopening Pro Tools does not work for me.

After rebboting, it may be fine for days, or may happen again after 10 mnutes. Now way to know until it happens.

I can't risk that with clients present.
__________________
Mac Pro 2009 with 2010 firmware, 12-Core 3.46ghz, 64gb RAM & working Thunderbolt, OS 10.14.6 and Windows 10
Macbook Pro 2011 17", 2.2ghz i7, 16gb RAM OS 10.12.6
Digi 003 Console, Focusrite OctopreLE and MOTU Traveler for extra analog-ADAT conversion, UAD Apollo Quad Silver with Thunderbolt card, Apollo x4 and pci-e Octo, Adam A77X monitors.
Pro Tools 2020.3, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 10.5, Wavelab Pro 10, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, Mainstage 3.
Various apps, soft synths, FX plugins.
Plenty of hardware synths, rack gear, microphones etc.
And then there's the studio ;-)
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  #109  
Old 02-03-2015, 10:49 PM
bashville bashville is offline
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelpry View Post
With disc cache on, the audio is read from cache, not the drive, then processed.

So in a bounce to disc with disc cache on, the only data involving the hard drive is the bounce beng written. So my point 3 is that I can happily record 24 tracks of audio, or record overdubs while 30-40 tracks play already recorded data back.

The point is to make clear that we can eliminate the problem being related to writing bounce to disc data to disc.

As for point 5, I've deleted RTAS dpm versions where the AAX version works in both PT10 and PT11. A few of my plugins are AAX only in PT11 because the manufacturer has not written PT10 compatible AAX lugins.

More to the point though, PT11 is supposed to be more efficient due to the complete 64bit rewrite and the sole use of 64bit AAX plugins.

Avid publicly stated it will even gring new life into older computers, because the same computer will be able to do more in PT11 than PT10, be ause of hose coding improvements.

So point 5 illustrats that this, in fact, is not proving to be the case.

Both point are, therefore, in my opinion, entirely relevant.
I see what you're saying about disc issues. I was thinking more about the plugs; thinking yes if the audio in the disc cache had already been passed through the plugs, it could rule out plugs as being the problem in that instance, because in fact then they couldn't be considered to be active. But that audio is still unprocessed, so the plugs still have to perform their task in real-time. For "#5" I was seeing it like if the audio engine is totally different in 11, then comparisons are hard to make between the two versions regarding how successful they're handling the processing.

I don't use BTD--so I can't speak to that. As far as "faster than real-time bounces", it seems like if people get those errors in real-time performance, how can it possibly work faster?
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  #110  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:49 PM
bobdodgy bobdodgy is offline
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Default Re: AAE -9173 Issues

I'm having the same issue here from time to time- during playback - and record. So much so that I never record in 11, always use 10.

the same sessions on the same computer are running happily in 10.

running 11.3 HD with RME interface, 10.8.5, 16G, MBP
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