Avid exported AAF out of Sync

[Avo.Mardikian]

Example: the clips on tracks A1 and A2 will all of a sudden be "late" starting at a certain timecode and be off for the majority of program after that point. It is also off by random amounts so a global nudge back into place does not fix the problem. It is also not identical to a "drift" style offset. Very obvious when there are stacks of 5 open mics and the first 2 are off pushed later in the timeline.

When the same client-exported-AAF file is imported back into Media Composer, it is all in sync meaning the problem is only when ingested by Pro Tools. I have tried various versions of PTU from 2020, 2021 and even PT10 HD on various versions of macOS (have not tested Windows).

Seeing this bug more and more across different clients. Currently have a support ticket with Avid..... Anybody else seem this?

Thank you!

[Avo.Mardikian]

Here is some more information:

We have asked the client to try all of the various output formats from Avid for Pro Tools and saw no change; Embedded AAF (our default ask), AAF linking to a folder of wav files, OMF linking to a folder of wav files, different boxes checked for rendered FX in the Avid export dialog box etc.

Description of sync offset:
Bit difficult to describe but imagine in your timeline there are 5 spots throughout 40minutes of program where 1-3 seconds of time was ADDED and as a result pushed all the clips out from that point forward, each time. Therefore after each of the 5 phantom spots, the offset for the clips on the affected tracks got more out of sync. Lastly, this is was only present on two tracks out of 40. So we manually fixed it by scanning through the timeline from the top of program, every time we came across one of these 5 phantom spots, we used shuffle mode and "pulled up" time on only the two tracks referencing the other dialog tracks and the guide audio to match sync. Once we got through he entire program (covering all 5 phantom spots) the two tracks that are out of sync were now in sync.

Here is the caveat: When the same AAF that the client delivered is imported back into Avid, the two tracks in question were 100% in sync in their sequence with all of the audio tracks and video directly contradicting what we are seeing in Pro Tools. We confirmed this by getting a copy of MC Ultimate, albeit a different version. We even took matters in our own hand and tried importing the AAF back into Avid and then re-exporting every combination possible back out of MC into Pro Tools to find a pattern or any clue to no avail. BUT if you export the AAF out of Pro Tools then BACK into Avid, alas, the clips were also off.

Lastly, the other 40 tracks in the AAF are solid. The video reference and guide look fine, no flags. Only the two affected tracks with the phantom offsets. How is this possible? How come the clips in Pro Tools are not 1:1 with the clips in Avid? That alone does not make any sense and is the first major flag here that I can not find an answer for.

First time I am out of troubleshooting techniques so any help is welcomed. Still waiting on answers from Avid...
Thanks.

[Avo.Mardikian]

Great news. Avid Support replicated the issue with problematic AAFs I provided that were outputted via MC and actual clients. There is a fix coming......

[trevora]

Originally Posted by Avo.Mardikian

Great news. Avid Support replicated the issue with problematic AAFs I provided that were outputted via MC and actual clients. There is a fix coming......

Good work.

A fix to PT or MC, do you know?

[diamondschwin]

Seems they are already on track to fix but I have seen this issue occasionally for the past couple years. Sometimes just reimporting the AAF has fixed it, other times the edit has to duplicate their sequence and re export the AAF.

[Avo.Mardikian]

A fix to Pro Tools! I have been given the official Pro Tools fix code that usually makes its way to the extensive release notes during updates. Crossing fingers the issue is resolved for the next release.

I have encountered this bug for some time as well but we have always been able to find a work around. In addition to duplicating the MC sequence, removing muted clips in MC has also been another workaround...

Thanks for the comments.

[Frank Kruse]

How much out of sync are we talking here? Frames, seconds? Subframes? What triggers it? Just embedded AAFs?

Thanks!

F.

[Avo.Mardikian]

Hello Frank. I did my best to describe the sync issue in my second post. By the end of a 40min program, sync was late by a total duration of about 12 seconds. Each passing "phantom spot" was adding more time to the total offset (better described in the aforementioned post).

Regarding AAF output from the client's media composer, all formats were tested; embedded AAFs, linking AAFs, OMFs, sample rate conversion checked/unchecked, bit depth conversion checked/unchecked, rendered FX checked/unchecked. By this time, we had so many client MC outputs that did not work, so we got our own MC license and imported the various outputs back into MC to create the original sequence and tried exporting any combinations from that point. A lot of time spent dissecting this issue just trying to get a clue of what was happening at those "phantom spots". Very frustrating.

Originally Posted by Frank Kruse

How much out of sync are we talking here? Frames, seconds? Subframes? What triggers it? Just embedded AAFs?

Thanks!

F.

[Avo.Mardikian]

This just in, it is both a MC issue and a PT issue. I am told by Avid support both MC and PT teams are working on this issue now. We hit the jackpot....

[Frank Kruse]

Nice one, thanks! Let's hope that it's not both machines that need updating. Cutting rooms are usually very slow when it comes to updating MC. At least in my hemisphere. But very helpful to know that there is a fix when it happens.

F.