dialogue placement in surround mix

[lexaudio]

Originally Posted by Charles D. Ballard

Amen and LOL! I've often wondered if the people in QC are actually watching the film. My favorite was once I had "Missing sound effect at 01:...." When we checked it out, it was when the character ran out of bullets and you could only hear the "click" from the empty gun.

I've got one better, though that's pretty funny. There was some slight dolly creaks in the production dialog.
ME note was missing dolly creaks.

EVen better, there was a production company who's overseas clients wanted the walla filled as they weren't going to do their own walla groups.
So the walla group had to do a gibberish pass on top of the domestic pass, matching exactly the domestic.

So the gibberish, was blah, blah, blah. It was funny to listen to.

[mgoorevich]

Like most of respected mixers suggested here, just keep it Center.
It sounds just right in the Center and this the conventional way to work with Dialogs.
All the other options are non conventional and you must have enough power, experience and mainly reason "why?" you want to do it.
Satisfy your artistic ego in effects, atmos and whatever else.
But don't take chances with dialogs.

...And don't ever try to record dialogs on location in 5.1

[Angelcool038]

Originally Posted by mr.armadillo

Reverb: Almost every mix I heard lately.
Panning: From the top of my head, check out "District 9" or "Scott Pilgrim". Very nice track on both of those.
Spreading accross LCR: "True Grit".

Hey, I'm pretty new to sound mixing and just found out what audio 5.1 is about; so is dialogue still subjective and/or is it just conventional to keep it in the center as of LATE 2023? Hahaha

[VRS]

How about when I mixed Highlander years ago.
English dialogue in M&E “move” - Fail
We couldn’t figure out what they were on about until one of the guys figured out that behind Roger Daltrey was a cow in he field.
Yes, it was a cow moo.

But I’d still take those QC reports over the insanity of today’s!!

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by mgoorevich

Like most of respected mixers suggested here, just keep it Center.
It sounds just right in the Center and this the conventional way to work with Dialogs.
All the other options are non conventional and you must have enough power, experience and mainly reason "why?" you want to do it.
Satisfy your artistic ego in effects, atmos and whatever else.
But don't take chances with dialogs.

...And don't ever try to record dialogs on location in 5.1

Exactly. Location recording in surround makes no sense unless there is a specific design for it.
A crowd would be great, an arena. Anything that is more BG.

Back at the first annual Surround Sound convention in 1999, Allen Sides said mixing music in 5.1, I never put the vocal in the center and never mix with the sub until the end to only dial in respective amounts that a 5.0 could play without it.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by Angelcool038

Hey, I'm pretty new to sound mixing and just found out what audio 5.1 is about; so is dialogue still subjective and/or is it just conventional to keep it in the center as of LATE 2023? Hahaha

Center channel dialogue is more a path of least resistance than anything subjective. The aim of the game in post sound is to tell the story in a way that smooths the seams of production (I am pretty sure that line is straight out of John Purcell's book on dialogue editing - worth the read!). Having dialogue in the center channel just always works for audiences and their film experience. With that said, a lot of the time it isn't particularly 'realistic' to just place dialogue in the center channel, but by doing so it makes it very easy for audiences to understand the 'rules' of how the sound in the film works.

You can really do anything you like with dialogue, but the second an audience doesn't understand the 'rules' you are asking them to experience the film by, they will be reminded that they are sitting in a cinema. You don't want that. You want them to be immersed in the story.

At the other end of the spectrum from center channel dialogue is stuff directed by Alfonso Cuaron. If we were all mixing his films, we'd be throwing dialogue all over the place. All his films still establish very clear rules about how the dialogue will be panned throughout.

The story is always king.

[VRS]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

Back at the first annual Surround Sound convention in 1999, Allen Sides said mixing music in 5.1, I never put the vocal in the center and never mix with the sub until the end to only dial in respective amounts that a 5.0 could play without it.

Well, that was 1999 when music mixers were mixing 5.1 as if it was quad. Most did not, and still don’t, understand panning in LCR, not LR.
They try to decide what to ‘put in the C channel’ instead of mixing for the format. Also, they like the sound of the phantom image by putting something LR because they’ve mixed that way their entire life so the C channel sounds weird to them.

The ‘sub’ was avoided because the downmix ignored the LFE channel in stereo (it’s not a ‘sub’ channel as it is so often called - it is a Low Frequency Effects channel).

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by VRS

Well, that was 1999 when music mixers were mixing 5.1 as if it was quad. Most did not, and still don’t, understand panning in LCR, not LR.
They try to decide what to ‘put in the C channel’ instead of mixing for the format. Also, they like the sound of the phantom image by putting something LR because they’ve mixed that way their entire life so the C channel sounds weird to them.

The ‘sub’ was avoided because the downmix ignored the LFE channel in stereo (it’s not a ‘sub’ channel as it is so often called - it is a Low Frequency Effects channel).

No they weren't.

Actually, Allen said it was because he didn't want to get a call from Mick Jagger saying he didn't hear his vocals.
It wasn't as if they were thinking QUAD. Come on.

DVD-A/V also automatically had a stereo mix available that would switch if not a 5.1 setup.

Pro Logic 1 or 2 did not ignore the sub channel. The sub channel masked the lack of bass in the main speakers.
Yes, LFE. But the point being made in the convention was that make sure your low end is solid in the 5.0 and then add the LFE to taste.

It was 1999. The home technology was new. there were different styles. Where were you?
Were you mixing in 5.1? Did you have a 5.1 mix room? Were you breaking any ground at the time?

I'm sure Homlan and Parsons would have loved to hear your take and experience in the field.