New MacPro HDMI

[Brandonx1]

Yes people used the Canopus. Could they judge sync with it? People who use a monitor just need to know sync with vary and be ok with it.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

Yes people used the Canopus. Could they judge sync with it? People who use a monitor just need to know sync with vary and be ok with it.

Surely they could judge sync or it wouldn't have been used? I've not seen any variation in sync with PT11

[Brandonx1]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

Surely they could judge sync or it wouldn't have been used? I've not seen any variation in sync with PT11

Canopus had something like +- 2 frames on a good day. Not pro, if you ask me.

Pt11 has the same issues that pt 10 has, or any other non gen locked system. The 2 systems don't know where the frame starts, so it doesn't start in sync, and the two systems don't know how fast the other is going so they drift. The amount will vary vary but, I can tell my clients with 99.9% accuracy that the sync they see is right.

I've worked in facilities that just let pt fly without gen locking anything and had clients ask me if something is in sync. I can't answer them.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

Canopus had something like +- 2 frames on a good day. Not pro, if you ask me.

Pt11 has the same issues that pt 10 has, or any other non gen locked system. The 2 systems don't know where the frame starts, so it doesn't start in sync, and the two systems don't know how fast the other is going so they drift. The amount will vary vary but, I can tell my clients with 99.9% accuracy that the sync they see is right.

I've worked in facilities that just let pt fly without gen locking anything and had clients ask me if something is in sync. I can't answer them.

Mike Aiton did tests with PT11 on the ProTools PC without a Ref and said it's not perfect, but much better, due to the fact it isn't relying on Avid's implementation of QuickTime.

When you say it doesn't know how fast it's going, surely it does as it knows the frame rate. Are you suggesting Media Composer has the same issues? If it doesn't, there's no reason Pro Tools should.

I'm just amazed Pro Tools can't do something so basic without a Sync HD. Ironically Avid only say you must have a Sync HD if you use a Mojo DX.

In this day and age Pro Tools should be able to provide reliable sync internally. Now they control the video engine too, there's nothing to stop the 2 being locked together at the session frame rate.

[mgoorevich]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

Mike Aiton did tests with PT11 on the ProTools PC without a Ref and said it's not perfect, but much better, due to the fact it isn't relying on Avid's implementation of QuickTime.

When you say it doesn't know how fast it's going, surely it does as it knows the frame rate. Are you suggesting Media Composer has the same issues? If it doesn't, there's no reason Pro Tools should.

I'm just amazed Pro Tools can't do something so basic without a Sync HD. Ironically Avid only say you must have a Sync HD if you use a Mojo DX.

In this day and age Pro Tools should be able to provide reliable sync internally. Now they control the video engine too, there's nothing to stop the 2 being locked together at the session frame rate.

For many years I haven't seen a post like this one, that i would so solely agree with!
Well written!

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by mgoorevich

For many years I haven't seen a post like this one, that i would so solely agree with!
Well written!

Thanks!

I know there is a lot of mis-information around, so it would be nice for someone from Avid to comment.
Perhaps Media Composer does run video and sound separately too and hopes for the best, I somehow doubt that though.

I remember a few years ago, just around the time BM cards support was added to Pro Tools, talking to someone from BlackMagic Design at the BVE in London and asking him if Pro Tools definitely needed bi or tri-level sync when working with their cards. His reply was something like "if Pro Tools needs bi/tri-level sync to run video internally and keep accurate sync (i.e. using a BM card and no decks), then something is very wrong with Pro Tools"

[Brandonx1]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

When you say it doesn't know how fast it's going, surely it does as it knows the frame rate. Are you suggesting Media Composer has the same issues? If it doesn't, there's no reason Pro Tools should.

I'm saying the only way to lock audio and video together, reliably, is to give them a common clock (speed) and a common starting point (frame boundary reference).

Without house sync, your video i/o and audio i/o will not be locked together.

When you say PT11 has "better" sync due to AVE, what exactly, are you saying? What are the new sync parameters?

PT with sync reference has something like +- 3 samples. I like being confident that I'm in sync, not just guessing.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

When you say PT11 has "better" sync due to AVE, what exactly, are you saying? What are the new sync parameters?

I'm referring to what Mike Aiton has found on PT11 without ref. I don't know the exact parameters other than the sync is a lot tighter. I'm guessing it's because there isn't such a delay in processing video through QuickTime. If I remember correctly he found there was much less drift than with the old QuickTime video playback.

I fully accept that for video IO and audio IO to be locked you need ref. However, if you are playing video through a Mac HDMI connection where you are able to set the refresh rate to a multiple of your frame rate (which you are), Pro Tools should be able to play audio and video at the same rate, instead of starting them separately and letting them run independently, unlocked. Frame edges could be determined from the video file, you shouldn't need a Sync IO to ensure that.

I'm not talking about what happens at the IO end, but internally within Pro Tools.

Are you able to comment on my questions about Media Composer? Lots of editors use that without hardware and don't seem to have issues with sync drifting, so I assume the 2 are locked together internally.

[Brandonx1]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

Are you able to comment on my questions about Media Composer? Lots of editors use that without hardware and don't seem to have issues with sync drifting, so I assume the 2 are locked together internally.

No I can't. I just know the facts about pro tools and it's requirements. I will say I tested pt 11 for sync and I still found drift of more then a frame after 10 minutes of play.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

No I can't. I just know the facts about pro tools and it's requirements. I will say I tested pt 11 for sync and I still found drift of more then a frame after 10 minutes of play.

Fair enough, thanks for that Brandon. Would be interested to see what Avid have to say on the matter. I assume this is with a BM card instead of internal video window?