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Old 12-01-2002, 11:43 AM
muspro muspro is offline
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 90
Default Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

What are your thoughts on the processing power of PTLE 6.0 software (which will be Altivec and DP aware) running on a new Mac DP 1gig or 1.25 gig machine VS. a Mix or Mix Plus system?

I have seen several post where guys with Mix (1 card) systems did not have hardly any DSP power with 32 tracks. This makes me think that an 001 might be more powerful in a new DP Mac and the new PTLE software.

Here are my goals:
- 24 to 32 tracks
- EQ and Comps on all tracks (waves)
- 4 or more additional effect inserts
- 4 or more auxes, 2 being verbs

What type of mix system would it take to run this? I know that PTLE systems are getting close to this and should be easy to do when the new 6.0 PTLE software comes out.

If a PTLE system IS more powerfull in DSP than a Mix or Mix Plus system, what other reasons would there be to move "up" to a Mix system. The only obvious ones to me are more I/O and some sync capabilities....anything else?

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Old 12-01-2002, 02:43 PM
c zarkos c zarkos is offline
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 36
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

posted December 01, 2002 12:30 PM *** ** ** * * * **
LE doesn't have Key Command Mode.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is huge for me....not to mention Beat detective.
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Old 12-01-2002, 02:58 PM
RobMacki RobMacki is offline
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jefferson State, USA
Posts: 2,968
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

"Powerful LE" is an oxymoron. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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Old 12-01-2002, 03:01 PM
jooky jooky is offline
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 30
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

I believe PT v6.0 has key command mode as well as some midi groove template things, but no beat detective as I recall.
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Old 12-01-2002, 03:38 PM
muspro muspro is offline
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 90
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

Hey Guys,

All good points but let me question some of them...

- mix systems have the abuility to expand dsp with the addition of dsp cards - True, but with PTLE 6 using so much power of the new DP G4's, wouldn't future G4's/G5's be a DSP UPGRADE?

- the true rich sound of a tdm - Does TDM sound better? I was unaware if it sounds different/better than RTAS. If so why?

I absolutly agree with you get what you pay for and the Peavy/Soundcraft example.........BUT we all must realize that yesterday's top of the line systems will at some point NOT outperform TODAY'S cheaper systems. This happens in every aspect of technology. I am just wondering if we are at that point where PTLE may surpass some MIX systems in DSP horsepower.

Of course there are other software features that MIX systems enable that I am not sure of. This is something else I am trying to figure out. So what is: key command mode and beat detective....any other software differences.

BTW-I use a Mackie D8B as a front end into a 001 with a Mackie HUI.......I am just wondering if I should move to a TDM system for some Mixing power or wait to see what a new DP G4/PTLE 6 system may give me.

Thanks for the great info!

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Old 12-01-2002, 03:52 PM
quadwould quadwould is offline
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 161
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

you are using a D8B and a HUI with PTLE 001???

why not just the D8B and 001, the Hui almost seems like a hell of a lot of overlap. (though it does have exclusive controls which the D8b does not.
but still...???
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Old 12-01-2002, 04:09 PM
Guitarman2k2 Guitarman2k2 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 356
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

Dump the D8B and with the money get a Mix+ with an 888/24. Thats my advice. You will never regret it. Native audio is a fine idea but the reaity of it doesn't live up to the hype. All those theoretical instanciations of plugins wont seem that great when you deal with slow downs of hardware, when every time they upgrade the software your computer gets relatively slower and slower and more feeble until you have to get another one, of re-configuring the OS and the hardware buffers to do different things. It'll drive you crazy.
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Old 12-01-2002, 05:45 PM
DJBorrmann DJBorrmann is offline
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Mesa, AZ USA
Posts: 50
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

Always read the posts, but never respond. Always interesting. Thanks guys and gals. First and foremost, I am a Mix3/HD owner, and love it. I am not a proponent (necessarily) of what I am laying out. But a few thoughts. I cannot tell a difference between the TDM RenVox I pull up and the RTAS RenVox on the track next to it. This stuff sounds the same. Not only that, but I can get 13-15 autotunes (just for kicks) going on RTAS on my quicksilver 867. This many plugs would choke out nearly my whole mix3 rig. Anyway...I know it's an oddball situation, but the point is this...the native stuff is gonna win this war very soon. I understand what dan is saying, but there is just no sonic difference in my opinion. Native or not...it's all chip processed. I am not a big Nuendo or Cubase guy, but Steinberg has the answer to the future of recording in their "VST system link". Take a look. I'm not saying it's perfect today...but give it a look. It spells the end for tdm type systems. If the system link really worked (and it will...if not now...soon), why would I buy an extra farm card for $1500-$3000 when I could buy a 2GHZ P4 system for under $500 (no monitor), that WOULD be more powerful than a mix farm? I don't know. I am an Apple lover, so my hope is this...Apple reworks the logic interface (the learning curve of which I find nearly vertical), and add a "system link" like feature to Logic. Then I just add Xserves as necessary and think of them as farm cards. Game over. Apple wins. Just one guys opinion. As much as I love my PT TDM rigs (and I love them big time!!) the closed systems are going bye bye. In the meantime...digi...keep up the great work. Sorry...I guess I strayed from the topic.

Jason B
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Old 12-01-2002, 07:01 PM
muspro muspro is offline
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 90
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

I'll explain my system in a little more detail:

I have a D8B/HDR set up as my main tracking system. I also have 3 ADATS BRC to do transfers.
I got the Digi001 and Waves bundle to do 1. editing and mastering 2. small demos 3. to learn the PT system 4. have a way to transfer files to my main system. For this it has worked great.

However, I have tried to do some tracking and mixing with the PTLE system but it is not powerful enough. This is why I asked the original question about PTLE 6.0 and new DP G4's.

As far as getting rid of my D8B.........I don't think so.....what type of PT Rig would it take to have 48 channels of EQ/Comp/De-es/Gate, 12 auxes and 16 additional plugins all running at the same time, plus 24 faders and 56 analog inputs at 24 bits as well as AES/SPDIF I/O's? Just the inputs alone would take 7 888/24 and to hook those up you need 4 cards or a "MIX4" system (this is what I gathered from looking at the MIX site) which cost 2X or 3X as much as my whole system!
This is why I did not purchase a MIX system last year, just didn't make $$$ sense. However you can get a MIX system for $2,500 (1 card and PT 5.0-6.0) and an ADAT/24 I/O for $650. So for $3,150 I can get into a MIX system. BUT, will it have LESS DSP power than the new PTLE 6.0 system on DP G4.....that is the question.
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Old 12-01-2002, 07:18 PM
slickrick slickrick is offline
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 184
Default Re: Mix System VS Powerful PTLE System

I have to agree with Jason B.

I, too, have been a long-time TDM user, but the writing will eventually be on the wall.

My $50k system at work is nearly shadowed by my host 001 at home....at a tenth of the price.

The only real differences, thus far, are track counts and latency, but within a few years these'll be non-issues. Lack of SMPTE is a bummer, but there're ways to skin a cat.

Granted, TDM still "feels" more solid than RTAS, but, again, host speeds and latency will continue to close the gap, especially once OSX and PT6 develop further.


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