THIS IS STRICTLY FOR ANYONE AT DIGI WHO WILL LISTEN.

[Nine Spine]

Hello to all, first let me apologize for what is about to be the longest post ever on the DUC. I understand if nobody reads this, but I will be extremely upset (putting it mildly) if Digi doesn’t read this whole thing and offer some advice and help me fix this ongoing problem. I emailed this problem to Digi tech support and after they suggested two fixes, both of which I had already told them I tried twice, they pretty much said, “sorry… you’re just screwed”. Thanks a lot you bastards! I am now pleading for the help of literally ANYONE FROM DIGI, OR ANYONE WHO KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS!

As some of you may know I have been having SERIOUS troubles with my system, and again I thank you all for your insight, knowledge, and recommendations (the majority of them have been a massive help). I have been struggling with this for the past 8 days, with some advances and some major drawbacks, and have recently regained control of my system. As it stands right now, everything having to do with my computer works absolutely perfect…except for one large thing…

I’m the type of producer/engineer that likes to “loop record” a lot of vocal takes, solos, etc. just to try things out and hopefully come across the “perfect” take with the “magic” that I am looking for. As such, I am constantly highlighting a section of audio and hitting “loop record” and then letting PT do the work while we concentrate on the performance. After which I will then take what we’ve got and “comp” everything, or just select the take that we decide to keep. I am also the kind who likes to track everything and then edit later with fresh ears. In the Digi 001 promo video that was sent to me (by my request) they show 2 guys in bad shirts tracking three takes of vocals (in loop record mode), then cutting up the region into three sections, and then selecting which take they want for each of the three regions they created. THIS FEATURE IS VERY FU$%^&* VALUABLE TO ME! It is one of the reasons I bought this system. Which brings me to my problem…

When I attempt this, ProTools immediately crashes. And, if it were not for the “autosave” feature I would lose everything up until the last time I saved (at least this works right…or maybe this is part of the problem?… [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img].

This is EXACTLY what I do to make this happen. IT HAPPENS EVERY TIME… ON EVERY SESSION…EVEN ONES TRACKED ON ANOTHER SYSTEM… WITHOUT FAIL… EVERY G** D*** TIME!
1.) I launch ProTools
2.) I open a session (any session, one I created on my system OR ones created by my friends’ systems, PTLE OR TDM)
3.) I use the selector tool (I beam thingy)
4.) I place my cursor at any edit point anywhere in an audio region
5.) I press “Command+E” to “separate region”
6.) ProTools immediately creates new regions
7.) I then place my cursor at the beginning of the region, or I select the region with the grabber tool. These are both procedures for the same operation and it doesn’t matter which one I use, the result is the same.
8.) Then I “command+click” either at the beginning of the region (if it is not highlighted), or anywhere in the region (if the region is highlighted).

This is what is supposed to happen:
1.) ProTools generates a “pop-up” menu listing all of the audio regions in my session with the exact same time code stamp as the one I have selected.
2.) Then I am supposed to be able to select which one I want.
AS A NOTE I DO HAVE THE “SEPARATE REGION APPLIES TO ALL RELATED TRACKS” PREFERENCE ENABLED IN THE “PREFERENCES>EDITING” WINDOW. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO ALLOW ME TO SEPARATE EVERY “LOOP RECORDED” AUDIO REGION IN THE EXACT SAME PLACE ON EVERY “LOOP RECORDED” TAKE THAT MATCHES THE ORIGINAL TIMECODE STAMP.

This is what does happen. THIS ALSO HAPPENS EVERY TIME! It varied a little in the past but now it is exactly the same no matter what!
1.) ProTools generates a “pop-up” menu that contains “GIBBERISH”. When I say gibberish I mean it has anywhere from 1 to 20 characters of weird symbols and letters similar to this “@$#%&@^%#” but some have little Apple signs, some have just dots, some have little pictures/icons of things.
2.) Whether I select the “gibberish” or not, ProTools immediately produces an error window that says “Time Type Mismatch occurred in “Time_Typed.cpp” line 265” with a button that says “O.K.”
3.) When I select the “O.K.” button, ProTools immediately produces another error window that says “Time Type Mismatch occurred in “Time_Typed.cpp” line 260” with a button that says “O.K.”
4.) When I select “O.K.” ProTools and DAE immediately CRASH/SHUT DOWN!
5.) My computer then puts up an error window that says the following “The application”ProTools LE” has unexpectedly quit due to an error Type 3, please restart the computer”
6.) My computer then works absolutely fine until I re-launch ProTools and repeat the process above.

This is some of what I have tried in order to fix this problem, this list does not contain everything I have tried because it has been 8 days and I don’t know if I can remember EVERYTHING that I have done… but I will try.
1.) Trash the following items and restart ProTools: PT Prefs, DAE Pref’s folder, OMS Pref’s, OMS Autosetup Doc, and some other Digi thing like “Digi System Init” that was recommended by Digi, I can’t remember exactly what it was.
2.) I reset the memory values to the default for ProTools and DAE.
3.) I un-installed and re-installed PTLE. (TWICE)
4.) I did a clean install of my OS. (TWICE)
5.) I re-formatted (wiped-clean) my hard drives and re-installed all software/sessions/and data. (TWICE)
6.) I manually turned off any and every extension in an attempt to troubleshoot an extensions conflict. (TWICE)
7.) I removed all non-Apple and Apple ram and re-started using only one RAM chip at a time in order to locate a bad RAM chip.
8.) I zapped the PRAM
9.) I ran disk first aid and verified/repaired everything (TWICE)
10.) I rebuilt the desktop
11.) I tried to install Mac OS 9.1 but my computer needs OS 9.2.1
12.) Took out my PCI video card for my second monitor (Digi doesn’t support this so I thought this might be the problem even though it worked fine for 8 months before.)
13.) I then bought and used Conflict Catcher 8 and Micromats Techtool Pro 3 to do the following:
a. Test all RAM chips functionality (ALL PASSED)
b. Run Benchmark tests (ALL IS RUNNING FAST AS HELL)
c. Run all applicable CACHE tests (ALL PASSED
d. Run CLOCK test (ALL PASSED)
e. Run COMPONENTS test (ALL PASSED)
f. Run all DESKTOP test (ALL PASSED)
g. Run all DRIVES test, Read buffer, Write buffer, etc. (ALL PASSED)
h. Run FILE STRUCTURE test, (ALL PASSED)
i. Run FINDER tests (ALL PASSED)
j. Run MATHEMATICS test (ALL PASSED)
k. Optimized/Defragmented System drive
l. Run PRAM tests (ALL PASSED)
m. Run PROCESSOR tests (ALL PASSED)
n. Run ROM test (ALL PASSED)
o. Run SERIAL PORTS/USB tests (ALL PASSED)
p. Check for all software conflicts (None Found)
q. Check for all extensions conflicts (None Found)
r. Run SURFACE SCAN test (ALL PASSED)
s. Run SYSTEM FILES test (ALL PASSED)
t. Run VIDEO tests (ALL PASSED)
v. Run VIRUS tests and VIRUS Catcher (ALL PASSED)
w. Run Volume Structure tests (ALL PASSED)
x. Run VRAM tests (ALL PASSED)

So as you can see I’ve pretty much got all the bases covered here and ProTools still FAILS EVERY TIME!!!

My system is this:
1.) PowerMac G4 733mhz Quicksilver
2.) 1.5 gig of RAM
3.) (1) 40 gig system drive (Quantum I think…pre-Maxtor)
4.) (2) 30 gig Seagate Barracuda ATA 100 drives with a 7.9ms seek time 10,000rpms
5.) OS 9.2.1
6.) ProTools LE 5.1.1 (it fails with 5.1 as well, except when it does my computer freezes and I can’t do anything)
7.) Plug-ins from Waves, Bomb Factory, DUY, Kind of Loud, DigiRACK, McDSP, Focusrite, and Sound replacer. These are installed in the plug0ins folder but none of these are even active on the tracks. I REPEAT THERE ARE NO PLUGINS ACTIVE ON ANY TRACKS ANYWHERE.
8.) Lexmark Printer (currently disabled)
9.) ATI Radeon Mac PCI video card for second monitor (I know DIGI doesn’t support this)
10.) (2) 20” Sony Trinitron Monitors
11.) Apple Pro mouse and keyboard
12.) Teac Floppy Drive
13.) Whatever CD-ROM Drive came with my computer.
14.) I have NO Third party software (except the $240 in utilities software I just bought) installed on this computer. There are things on there (Like Internet Explorer, Sherlock, iTunes) etc. that came on the OS but I have installed nothing other than ProTools and the printer drivers.

I have been a loyal ProTools user since I sold Session 8 systems at a music store I used to work at years ago. I have been extremely impressed by the people that work there that I have met and who have helped me with issues in the past and other things in my life (Thank you Scott Wood, Dave Anderson, Ken Walden) but my current situation with Digi’s Tech Support is PISSING ME OFF!! I absolutely NEED to have this issue fixed and if I can’t… then it’s time to sell this SH*T and buy Digital Performer or Logic (HELLO MOTU 828!!!). I am in no way stating that this is of no fault of my own, and I am in no way trying to upset anybody, but I am stating that I need help with your product…. ARE YOU WILLING TO HELP ME???

[bassmac]

umm...could you please repeat that.


Just kidding [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

The only thing in your set-up that I would question is the 9.2 OS. True, it works great for lot's of folks, but it's generally known to be a little buggy. 9.1, or 9.0.4 is considered to be more solid overall. This might not mean jack, but I thought I'd point it out since it looks like you've tried just about everything else known to mankind.

As far as the feature in question...as popularized by the guys in the video. It doesn't crash my system, but it doesn't work very reliably either, and I'm not the first person to say that.

The few times I've used it, I always end up losing regions in the black hole (region bin)

To accomplish the same thing, and manage regions a little easier. I would just duplicate out the region you want to sing along with a bunch of times across the session, and record the vocals on the track below. It's the same thing, and this way all your regions are right in front of you for editing. Somebody who does this more than me may have a better suggestion as well, but at least it could get on your way.

Good luck.

[Avid]

You have to realize that email is not a very effective way of solving a technical problem. According to our records and matching your email address to our DigiStore database, and your band website, we were able to figure out your name. We do not have you in our registration database. We do have a Digi 001 system registered to someone with a different name and the same address as yours, but they have a different email address listed in their registration. No one with your name or the name on that registration has called Digidesign Technical Support. We log all calls with details of the problems and the support suggestions.

We realize that when you encounter problems it can be extremely frustrating, but you have to pick up the phone and try to get them solved. We will stick with it and do everything possible to solve whatever problem you are having, but you really need to give us a chance to do that rather than just dumping on tech support on the DUC.

So please call and see if we can help. If we're mistaken and you have already attempted to resolve this by calling tech support, we apologize, but that does not appear to be the case from the research that we've done so far.

[Michael Cottrell]

Try searching the DUC for the keywords "Operator Error". [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Avid]

Additional follow-up: I did find your 2 emails to tech support, and both asked you for follow up information. Since there is a one-to-2 day turnaround on email, we may not have received your answer to the second reply sent on January 2nd. Neither reply from Tech Support said that you were on your own, only that they did not have an immediate solution and were not able to reproduce the problem using the same steps. Doesn't mean that it isn't happening on your system, but not being able to reproduce it makes it more difficult to solve. I would suggest that if you were able to try the Digi 001 in a different computer and were not able to reproduce the problem, then it would clearly point to a hardware or software problem on your specific computer.

And some of you other guys, don't be so hard on Nine Spine. He has taken most of your suggestions and tried them, and spent time and money on a number of software recommendations.

Again, I think the phone is a better method to try to resolve this in the quickest way.

[dcornutt]

change your system font to something besides charcoal.

Sounds like it could be a font problem.

Anyway..worth a shot.

dcornutt

[DigiTechSupt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nine Spine:
My system is this:
3.) (1) 40 gig system drive (Quantum I think…pre-Maxtor)
4.) (2) 30 gig Seagate Barracuda ATA 100 drives with a 7.9ms seek time 10,000rpms<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-How are you connecting your drives to your system? In your setup, it would be assumed that you have 2 drives connected to one ATA bus and the CD-ROM and 3rd drive to the 2nd ATA bus. However, I have heard of a third party ribbon cable that allows you to daisy chain 3 ATA devices off of one bus...these have been problematic and if you are using one, remove it from the system.

-Since you didn't mention it, make sure you reduce the Disk Cache (Memory Control Panel) to 512k.

-Make sure you used Apple Drive Setup to format your ATA drives...I third party utilities cause problems.

-Is there any other hardware connected to the system (PCI, USB, FireWire) that you haven't already mentioned?

I would also suggest you remove the 2nd monitor hardware from the system until this issue gets resolved...it just reduces the number of variables you are dealing with.

Brent

[Park Seward]

To all that ever have problems... TALK to someone in Tech support. Don't rely on email or this DUC. The best way to solve a problem is to talk to someone who can walk you through solutions and tests.

[Nine Spine]

First let me apologize to everyone/anyone that I may have offended. I have been a little upset about this issue for the last little while, and I must have typed the above information (in many different forms) six times. So I figured if I sent everything one final time there might not be any repeated suggestions. Everyone (well most everyone) has been really helpful with this and I am sorry I keep taking your time. I had to leave for a rehearsal and I am sorry I have taken so long to get back to this... okay here goes...

First, to everyone, I love Digidesign... I always have. I have been using (and selling at one point) their systems since nearly the beginning. I can honestly say that I have never experienced a problem that in the end they didn't take care of. But I tried the usual avenues lately to no avail. This as I saw it was my last chance to get help and then I was just going to live with the problem.

Second, to Bassmac your information has been valuable and helpful from the beginning and I thank you. I was told by Apple tech support not to install OS 9.0 or OS 9.1 on my machine or "the demons of hell would be released" or something like that. But I appreciate the tip, it was probably the only thing mentioned earlier that I didn't try.

Third, to Digi Web Admin, I have called Digi Tech Support or should say I have tried to call a few times, and I will try again tomorrow. As for the name thing I can explain more when I call, but keep in mind that me and a friend of mine built this studio and although we both use it, I am the primary user for this when he is out of town. He works for Tascam and is currently in LA/Anaheim for obvious reasons. The registration will be under Jason's name or mine (I honestly don't remember which) and if it's easier to have you talk to him than me that is fine, whatever I have to do, I will do. Keep in mind that he hasn't been here for this episode.

Fourth, to Digi Web Admin, I tried to respond to the emails sent to me by Digi tech support (twice) but the return email address on the email shows [email protected] and this is returned as an "Undeliverable Message" for obvious reasons.

Fifth, To Michael Cottrell, I can only hope that this is my (our) stupid fault somehow. I would love for this to be something easy to fix. Thank you for you help.

Sixth, to dcornutt, thank you I will try changing fonts in the morning. I will cry if this fixes it though.

Seventh, to Park Seward, I will give this one another shot in the morning when I am near my system and can get through. I thank you as well for all of the helpful information you have provided.

Seventh, To Brent at Digi, I can't begin to imagine the crap you have to deal with and I apologize for any harsh statements I made. Please understand that my last post was only a last desperate cry for help before I gave up on this issue and it REALLY was not meant to be malicious or hurtful to anyone at Digi. I, as well as all of my friends, have loved the products and services you guys provide for years. I hope the information I have inserted below can help.


-it would be assumed that you have 2 drives connected to one ATA bus and the CD-ROM and 3rd drive to the 2nd ATA bus.

You stated it exactly how they are hooked up. System Drive and One audio drive are on one bus, the CD-Rom drive and the other audio drive on the other bus. I do not have a third party cable connecting drives, I used the cables that came with the mac.

-Since you didn't mention it, make sure you reduce the Disk Cache (Memory Control Panel) to 512k.

It is and always has been at 128k, I raised it to 512k at one point but it didn't seem to help so I lowered it again. I will raise it back up in the morning.

-Make sure you used Apple Drive Setup to format your ATA drives...I third party utilities cause problems.

I did use Apple Drive Setup to format my drives. When I installed them.

-Is there any other hardware connected to the system (PCI, USB, FireWire) that you haven't already mentioned?

The printer was connected via USB but I yanked that, I also have a Teac floppy drive that was hooked up via USB but that is only hooked up when it needs to be and hasn't been for some time.

I would also suggest you remove the 2nd monitor hardware from the system until this issue gets resolved...it just reduces the number of variables you are dealing with.

I will do this again, it was un-hooked for two days, but I recently (yesterday) hooked it up again.

Brent[/QB][/QUOTE]

I would like to state at this point that my system has run rock-solid from the beginning (well..the 001 anyway) and still does with the exception of this one flaw. It just so happens that this one flaw is important to me. Peace to all and thank you again for the help.

[Mr T]

Just a thought...sorry if I'm late or if it has already been said before (there seem to be a lot of different posts-replies concerning your issue) but reading your last long post, :
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR> ProTools generates a “pop-up” menu that contains “GIBBERISH” <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know what you mean by that, I think I've seen it before. It looks like a fade file name or even worse, right?...(=some strange language coming from Mars...).
I've seen this when bouncing to disc or applying a plug on a region (thus creating a new file). Since I have 2 screens, I often can see the drive's window where my session resides along with associated audiofiles. BTD or applying plugs, I've noticed that the resulting new files were given such weird names while being "built" (I mean before processing was completed); it's like PT knows a new file has to be created(with a new name and new informations) but it doesn't know yet what name and informations(ex: time location, new size, new volume...) the file is exactly gonna have. So it seems that the files you get in the menu,when loop recording, are files with missing informations (due to bug from PT or OS?).
I know what you're thinking right know "Oooh, thank you for that info, but I had figured this myself !!!".
I know this not really helpfull, just an explanation start...
Now concerning a solution, If I'm right assuming this is a bug coming from PT and not from the OS (I see that you've tried to reinstall the OS), there's one last thing I believe you haven't tried. I suppose that when you have reinstalled PT, you've done this using the same CD that you had used during original installation. Maybe the bug resides on the CD itself...(after all, CDs are not always reliable; it just takes one or two 0/1 missing or corrupted and...).
You could tried from another CD if you can (borrowed from a friend, or ask Digi, or the dealer who sold it to you, for a new one).
As I said, just a thought ,but considering you've already tried almost everything...
Anyway good luck with this (and sorry for the boring "gibberish" explanation).