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  #21  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:36 AM
justinhill justinhill is offline
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
you can test it yourself.. one plugin might behive nicely on DSP and have thousands of samples of native latency

so remove f'ex all MCDSP from the mixer and see how much the latency changed. i have no idea which plugin it is but should not bring roundtrip to +10ms
Janne, I'll try that when I get another chance to play around. But it doesn't change the fact that on HDX I can throw plugins around with gay abandon regardless of what they are - as long as they're DSP - and my latency doesn't increase, and the pressure on the buffer size setting doesn't increase. And I can introduce any number of subgroups etc. This session had 29 tracks in record, 8 auxes, plus the cue feeds, monitoring etc.

On this particular session it might not have been such a big deal (four trombones, four trumpets and five saxes make so much noise anyway!) but on other sessions the band really seems to appreciate getting a semi-produced sound through their cans. It makes them feel good about what they're playing so I'm always rough-mixing as I go, even as the recording progresses. I suppose everyone does this.
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:00 AM
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arche3 arche3 is online now
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

It seems like to me in hdx the headphone feed sounds correct no matter the playback engine buffer or dsp plugin count. Only time I've had an issue is if a aux channel used as sub master has a bunch of dsp and native plugins. Then the cans sound delayed. But if the sub master just has a dsp limiter or such then it still works fine. I'm usually at 512 playback buffer for vocalists. Changing it to lower buffer doesn't seem to affect latency. So I usually stay at 512 for tracking. I can even punch in on a track with a mix of dsp and native plugins. If the native plugs are first in the chain. They just get disabled at record and input.

For hdx tracking it pretty much set it and forget it. As long as you use aax dsp. No worry about anything else.

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  #23  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:53 AM
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JFreak JFreak is offline
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

I've used them all dont get me wrong.. but it is still a matter of math to calculate the roundtrip latency. With zero plugins the difference is in the hardware. Add first native plugin and it's about the playback hardware plus buffer. Add first DSP plugin and it's the former plus DSP latency.

Whatever track-it-as-you-mix session I have ever had, the DSP latency has always been about 350 samples or more, although trying to be conservative. That is already +7ms @48k not taking ADDA into account.

So great if you have DSP and some of your goto plugs have lower latency on hardware (lowest i've seen on TDM were 3 or 4 samples) compared to native, but the fact is if you have ONE native plugin on DSP system you will also have playback buffer latency.

Hardware + Playback + DSP = total latency.
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  #24  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

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Originally Posted by arche3 View Post
It seems like to me in hdx the headphone feed sounds correct no matter the playback engine buffer or dsp plugin count.
Sweet. Also my experience on native systems since 2002 have been similar if you set playback buffer to 256 or lower. To repeat myself, 256 playback buffer makes "headphone feeds sound correct"
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  #25  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:49 AM
justinhill justinhill is offline
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
the fact is if you have ONE native plugin on DSP system you will also have playback buffer latency.

Hardware + Playback + DSP = total latency.
Couldn't agree more. So I never use any native plugins on tracking sessions.
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  #26  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

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Originally Posted by justinhill View Post
Couldn't agree more. So I never use any native plugins on tracking sessions.
True.. either or.. BUT you should be aware of the amount of samples your DSP mixer is demanding, whether it is smaller or larger than playback buffer.

Assuming same hardware of course. And assuming any given native plugin isn't introducing insane amount of delay (which is rare, because same plugin on AAXDSP should be faster).
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  #27  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

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Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
.
If you need super low latency or use hardware fx inserts or a separate board I can see the benefit of HDX.

Yes for tracking it still is great, with DC’d outs and zero (perceptible) Latency on the in’s. And no 3rd party software hoops to jump through, sends from the PT mixer

It’s a one trick pony but that trick is very nice.
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  #28  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
anyone who needs 65th input

.

Good one
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  #29  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:00 AM
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
I'm not trying to take over the thread too much, but guys, have you always calculated the DSP latency that is going on with the mixer? I mean if the DSP latency is 350 samples how come its monitoring is tighter than full-native mixer with 128 playback buffer, tell me?
Because the 128 buffer is ON TOP of the time to pass through the native (host) processor. That time is ALWAYS there unless you are using hardware to bypass it (like HDX). You can't just count the buffer size and call that latency, it doesn't work that way. HDX RTL remains significantly lower than native solutions, and many musicians do indeed have exquisite sensitivity to latency.
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  #30  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: HDX vs Native

I know, some divas are even sensitive to the temp of drinking water they are being served.

Nevertheless, HDN rtl 96k@128 buffer is 3ms (don't remember who measured this but thanks anyway) which is pretty darn good. I still use my trusty old HD rig on live gigs and never ever my real life mixer has less than 350 samples of DSP latency (@48k) which means +7ms just for processing plugins. I have never had HDX of my own so don't have any numbers for it.

Latency is only noticeable when it's too much; you either can monitor or you cannot. But sure, if you have a bad day changing that drinking water to colder one may make your guitar solo shine. I understand that.
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