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  #7671  
Old 09-12-2007, 10:50 AM
luffe luffe is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

Joz, thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge on this. As I told you earlier I am a newbie to all those recording techniques and stuff. It is quite overwhelming when you know zero about it, so I kinda suck every tip I can from people like yourself, that knows about it and have actually proved, that their recordings sound great. I will keep your tips warm till the day I am able to try making my first recording. I've had my Digi 003 factory for quite some time now, but so far I've just been experimenting. So your knowledge comes in quite convenient here... I'm sure it will help me come over the mountain top some day...

I have been playing a lot (I am a piano/Hammond/keyboard player) but the tech-stuff never caught my attention until now. But I find it very exciting to work with ProTools and all the possibilities, but there's quite a lot to hold in your head, right

Thanks again.... and now I'll enjoy Wait A Minute again!

Best regards,

luffe
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  #7672  
Old 09-12-2007, 10:54 AM
Stixxs Stixxs is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

Quote:
Here I finished it! it sounds huge now. I found vintage strings VST for free, and I was really surprised by the sound.
www.overnightlows.com/music/waitaminute.mp3
Nice stuff Joz,

How'd you do the drums...if i might ask?

...Or the signal chain for the production would be sweet.

-thx
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  #7673  
Old 09-12-2007, 05:25 PM
Joz Joz is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

The drums are 100% real. There are overheads and room mics, and I never mic the bottom snare. We rent the kit, and professionally tune it. And is extremely important to check for phase issues between ALL of the mics, even if the phase is fine at tracking you gotta check every time you adjust EQ on a drum track and every time you insert another plug-in. When you EQ, especially the low freqs, it almost always changes the phase. Trust me I ruined many recordings in the past by not doing this thoroughly. I added a couple of dbs on the overheads at 7k, and low pass everything below 6k on the room mics. That way I can turn up the room tracks (a lot) without bringing a lot of cymbals. I automated the room tracks at the tom part in the middle of the song, turned them up about 7 dbs higher than the rest of the song. Of course there are a billion other things to take into account like, brand of drum set (Ludwig and Pork Pie are by far the best to me) the room where you record, mics, micing technique, and drummer!! And you can't get a good drum sound if the rest of the tracks don't work frequency wise. Now that has a lot to do with production.

www.overnightlows.com/music/waitaminute.mp3
www.overnightlows.com/music/areyouready.mp3

Joz
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  #7674  
Old 09-12-2007, 07:32 PM
Stixxs Stixxs is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

Thanks Man,

That's not the 002 pres and conversion...is it?


Really nice production nontheless!
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  #7675  
Old 09-12-2007, 07:39 PM
Stixxs Stixxs is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

Sorry just read the Brent Averill pre post.

...Conversion???
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  #7676  
Old 09-13-2007, 05:52 AM
IntelDoc IntelDoc is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

JOz,
One thing.... unless it was te desired effect, the auotune is a bit heavy on "Wait A minute" That Cher effect is really prominent in the slower verses. Going for that? or.....? I personally have gotten away from Autotune and gotten onboard with Melodyne.

Jut saying, it is pretty obvious in some of her more dramatic parts.

Doc
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  #7677  
Old 09-13-2007, 08:25 AM
Naagzh Naagzh is offline
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Posts: 1,175
Default Re: Overnight Lows

Quote:
The drums are 100% real. There are overheads and room mics, and I never mic the bottom snare. We rent the kit, and professionally tune it. And is extremely important to check for phase issues between ALL of the mics, even if the phase is fine at tracking you gotta check every time you adjust EQ on a drum track and every time you insert another plug-in. When you EQ, especially the low freqs, it almost always changes the phase. Trust me I ruined many recordings in the past by not doing this thoroughly. I added a couple of dbs on the overheads at 7k, and low pass everything below 6k on the room mics. That way I can turn up the room tracks (a lot) without bringing a lot of cymbals. I automated the room tracks at the tom part in the middle of the song, turned them up about 7 dbs higher than the rest of the song. Of course there are a billion other things to take into account like, brand of drum set (Ludwig and Pork Pie are by far the best to me) the room where you record, mics, micing technique, and drummer!! And you can't get a good drum sound if the rest of the tracks don't work frequency wise. Now that has a lot to do with production.

www.overnightlows.com/music/waitaminute.mp3
www.overnightlows.com/music/areyouready.mp3

Joz
Sweet man! Glad to hear someone isn't relying on samples for that roominess, and understands the value of a good drummer! I'm curious about your decisions regarding phase: which tracks ended up flipped according to your expectations, which ended up flipped to your surprise, and which plugs necessitated the phase inversion(s)? Also (if you want to divulge) how'd you tune/mic/muffle the bass drum? And what and where were the room mics? I really like the idea of rolling off the highs on them; I've done this myself in the past to an extent, but I'll try it a bit more severe next time. Thanks for all the tips!

At the risk of overextending my welcome, would you mind posting a screenshot of the drums in the mix window?
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  #7678  
Old 09-13-2007, 09:16 AM
luffe luffe is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

Doc, you're right about the Cher effect. I noticed it too. Don't know if it was intentional, but I like the sound and think it suits the song very well.

Doc, I visited your web site. Impressive! I listened to a lot of great sounding music. It is obvious that you are an experienced producer Tell me one thing, 'cause I know you know. Lateley I've been listening to several country artists f.ex. Rascal Flatts. IMHO these country act's vocals sound stunning. How are they achieving that sound that are common for many country stars. I think they have a bit of the Cher effect or maybe vocal harmonizer kind of sound to them??? Is Autotune supposed to bring any effect to the recorded track btw?

Hope to hear from you.

Best regards,

luffe
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  #7679  
Old 09-13-2007, 10:45 AM
IntelDoc IntelDoc is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

Luffe,
Thanks first off. AS for your questions..... I think it realy bowls down to talent, financing and good use of plugins and preamps, prodicing and engineering. Mic choice is everything for the singer. Bad mic, good performance = medeocre sound in my mind. Great mic choice, great performance, great engineer and proper use of chain = key to successful sound. Alot of the coutry singers can sing their asses off too. Especially the females that do not whine about their boyfriends.

As for Autotune. I personally HATE the Cher effect and honestly find it a poor use of the plug. That is of course unless the desired effect is that, CHER. That is why I asked Joz if that was his goal as I know he understands and uses the sotware he has well. Some people thrw it on there and let it ride. That is when it goes south. I just finished a record where the label sent me material that was already autotuned and for ROCK, that is bad. SEND YOUR MIX ENGINEER, RAW, UNEFFECTED TRACKS. Please! So it sounded dlike a vibrato gone south. An NO, sutotune is not suppsed to affect the sound, it is supposed to TUNE the vocals that are slightly out.

So long story short on vocals. They are doing alot of take, a lot of processing and a lot of work to achieve that perfection that you hear. Lotsd of analog too I am pretty sure.


P.S. There is definitely some plugin tuning on the Flats CD. Listening to it now. Lots of doubling going on too in parts. Just a big production on the whole scheme of things.

Doc
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  #7680  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:31 AM
luffe luffe is offline
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Default Re: Overnight Lows

Doc, thank you so much for taking the time to answer. Really nice of you. It is really rewarding to talk to people like you and Joz and other great members who actually have a lot of experience and know-how - and actually willing to share. I am into this recording stuff on an amateur basis only, not to become a Justin Niebank or similar...hehe. But I am still interested in making my recordings sounding as good as possible with the tools available, so all the input from here is valuable in that process. And it can prevent loosing time going in wrong directions that would end up impossible anyway because of budget, gear, equipment etc.... On the other hand all the tips and tricks also help being more inspired to experiment and thats great.

I agree, that many of the country singers of course are amazing singers. No matter how good your equipment are you can't get a poor performance shining....!

Regarding the Rascal Flatts you're probably right about tuning, 'cause their vocals are sharp as a razor blade!!!

I guess all the music on your site is produced by yourself, right?

Best regards,

luffe
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