Recording levels? -18dbs

[Bob Olhsson]

Actually 0dB.VU is -20 dBFS while 0dB RMS is -18dBFS!

[Chief Technician]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Actually 0dB.VU is -20 dBFS while 0dB RMS is -18dBFS!

Are you referring to the idea that the 1kHz sine wave you can get out of the Avid Signal Generator plug-in should be treated as an RMS signal and not a peak signal?

I thought that you could load the Avid Signal Generator plug-in on a mono output, set it to -20 dBFS, and calibrate the analog audio output to measure 1.228V RMS on a voltmeter. I thought that calibrated signal (1kHz @ -20 dBFS = 1.228V RMS) could then be sent to a VU meter which would then be zeroed to this signal.

1kHz at -20 dBFS = 1.228V RMS = 0 VU

Is what you are describing related to this archived thread where those of us who participated in it determined that the BombFactory Essential Meter Bridge should have been renamed to the BombFactory Essentially Useless Meter Bridge?

[Bob Olhsson]

Most software metering is a train wreck because developers don't pay any attention to the SMPTE standards. A VU meter is not an RMS meter.

I swear you need to know more about audio to use this stuff properly than you seem to need to know in order to get hired by a developer. I'll crawl back into my cave now.

[JuanPC]

Most Analog VU Meters can be calibrated to any level...
those who dont can also be calibrated using digital tricks, like DSP Mixer or a Digital crossover...
the procedure to calibrate a VU meter is to generate a Sine Tone, at desired Level, and adjust VU Meter to display usually 0dB, can also be done with +3dB or -3dB or -6dB.
calibrating an Analog VU Meter to show 0dB with a Digital Sinewave at -18dBFS gives a Low RMS Target Level....
calibrating an Analog VU Meter to show 0dB with a Digital Sinewave at 0dBFS gives a High RMS Target Level...
Like Most CD´s from the Loudness War.

Sinewaves are usually -3dB RMS from 0dB, or +3dB Peak from 0dB.
RMS is the 70,7% aprox. of a Symetric sinewave.
Average is the 63.66% aprox.
0dBV = 1volt RMS, 2.8284v Peak.
1.227653v RMS = +4dBu.
0dBu = 0.7745 volt ("0.77459667")
consumer audio −10dBV = 0.3162 volts = −7.78dBu

DA converter must have enough headroom for +3dB VU.

Some Professional Analog Equipment with +/-18volts DC power supply, or +36vdc Class.A, can have upto +32dBu Peak Output.

[Barry Johns]

This thread is a good read and should be a sticky for young up and comers!

[Extreme Mixing]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

No, people record too hot because they're looking at digital peak meters combined with the myth that you should record as hot as possible.

If everyone was forced to use real analog VU meters, we wouldn't be having this conversation because 0dBVU (which is -18dBFS) looks and feels "hot".

And for most analogue gear, recording somewhere around zero VU is where it sounds best. On analogue tape we used to record hi hats at around -10 on the vu meters. Hotter would distort. Analogue levels are program dependent. Different levels sound better for different elements. You have to have some sort of reference. -18 on a peak meter is usually close to zero VU. But on a hi hat zero VU is too hot. Not for the digital domaine. Too hot for the analogue mic preamp. There is plenty of room in a 24 bit file. It's silly to worry about filling the meters to the top with every element.

Steve

[lukeyy]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

No, people record too hot because they're looking at digital peak meters combined with the myth that you should record as hot as possible.

If everyone was forced to use real analog VU meters, we wouldn't be having this conversation because 0dBVU (which is -18dBFS) looks and feels "hot".

well the funny thing is knowing all this and using it I still think that some signals sound better if they are recorded hot even in digital world..

[JFreak]

Louder sounds better but you need to turn up the monitoring volume and leave recording levels on the safe side.

Of course, if you are recording a synth pad that has little to no dynamics, the safe side is considerably hotter than percussive material, such as kick and snare for example. Meters are not fast enough to tell you the truth about transients


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[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

No, people record too hot because they're looking at digital peak meters combined with the myth that you should record as hot as possible

Well that was kind of true with 16-bit sessions (96dB dynamic range) but is NOT necessary with 24-bit sessions until AD converters magically give +144dB dynamics



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[Extreme Mixing]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Louder sounds better but you need to turn up the monitoring volume and leave recording levels on the safe side.

Of course, if you are recording a synth pad that has little to no dynamics, the safe side is considerably hotter than percussive material, such as kick and snare for example. Meters are not fast enough to tell you the truth about transients


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A pad sounds better recorded hot? Not to me. And why record something hot only to turn it down 30 db during the mix. What a waste.

Steve